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» Nauvoo Forum » Nauvoo Classic Forum » LDS Books, Plays, and Music » Breaking Dawn (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Breaking Dawn
palmon
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I attended a lecture by a screenwriter recently. One thing he said was that after you write your book or screenplay and sign a contract, very rarely do you get a say in the final outcome. Which seems to me to be a bit problematic for LDS writers. The new Twilight apparently earned an 'R' rating for a sex scene. Readers of the article were assured it was being reshot so all the teen fans would be able to see it.

I read the first couple of novels but never finished the series. I have a question: the ads for the new movie talk about the wedding, so obviously the two main characters marry. Did Edward turn Bella into a vampire? Or will she become a cougar, married for life to a 17 year old as she ages?

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FlyByNight
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Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space

Edward does marry Bella. (And turn her into a vampire).

Disclaimer so I can keep my guy card [Wink]

I haven't read any of the novels, but my wife has told me main events in the novels. (I'm not one that cares to hear info before seeing the movie).

My wife and I have come to the conclusion that Meyer's vampires are not a biologically well thought scenario. Vampires can't have babies. However, ever Edward marries Bella then Bella gets pregnant while still human. Then to save her life, which is being depleted by the half & half child, Edward turns her at the birth.

It's just one of those things that make a person go hmmm ...

Just realized I'm saying that people who don't go hmmm aren't people, well maybe they're human, still wondering about their person status [Taunt]

[ October 28, 2011, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: FlyByNight ]

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jaimilyn
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Palmon, if you really want to know, keep reading...

Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space

Edward marries Bella. Their wedding night gets pretty freaky with all those repressed sexual feelings now being ok. Bella convinces Edward to consummate the marriage, and due to his super strength, they proceed to break a bed frame or two [Smile]

Due to these activities, Bella becomes pregnant (previously thought to be impossible for vampire + mortal to procreate), and a truly disturbing pregnancy is described.

There is also much moping and brooding by Jacob and Edward. Shock.

Then, it's time to have the baby, and if I ever see the movie I plan to avert my eyes from the whole birth scene. Basically, as the baby is half vampire, the placenta is vampire-tastic and Edward ends up having to do a C-section. With his teeth. Seriously.

Therefore, as this procedure is not recommended by the AMA, Edward has to turn Bella into a vampire, otherwise she was going to die.

Bella then wakes up a vampire, and proceeds to give the baby the most hideous name I've ever heard. Ever.

And then lots more drama...

Also, if you read between the lines, you'll know about Pluckie the Vampire Chicken
http://mormonhusbands.blogspot.com/2008/07/breaking-dawn-spoof-part-i.html

[Smile]

[ October 28, 2011, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: jaimilyn ]

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FlyByNight
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quote:
proceeds to give the baby the most hideous name I've ever heard. Ever.
Looks into the future and foresees a primary teacher calling. And within that class are children with that name. [Taunt] [ROFL]
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jaimilyn
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Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space

quote:
Looks into the future and foresees a primary teacher calling. And within that class are children with that name.
I swear I will never respect anyone that names their child Renesmee. Ever.
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Jacaré
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My wife and I know someone who named their daughter Galadriel. I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time.
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Jen
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How did this drivel even get published? [Wall Bash]
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palmon
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Here I thought I only had to fear bats and wolves.
Leaving to check out the chickens in the backyard....

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beefche
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Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space ... Spoiler space


OH MY GOSH! A c-section with his teeth? I read the first book--hated it and never read the rest. I saw the first movie, liked it better than the book, but that isn't saying much. Saw the first 30 min of the second movie and then turned it for fear of throwing something at the TV and breaking it for the horrendous message Stephanie Meyer doesn't mind instilling in her lead character.

I am sooooo glad I didn't waste my time reading the rest of that junk. I knew that vampires that didn't have enough self respect to incinerate in the sunlight, but instead sparkled weren't worthy of my time.

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Jean Valjean
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quote:
How did this drivel even get published? [Wall Bash]
De gustibus non disputandem est. I really have no use for such stuff myself, but other things are going to bring down Western civilization long before this does.
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Sweet William
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This couple who I just adore in our ward, and of whom I have the highest regard, actually read this book together. To eachother. And proclaim it just wonderful, marvelous and fantabulistic.

And they both seem really smart. [Confused]

I guess even the nicest, sweetest, people can have an occasional screw loose. [Smile]

Although, I must say that I do find tiresome living in a culture too-highly influenced by 13-year-old girls and their mommies' credit cards. I think that is why I gave country music the heave-ho about 12 years ago (I'm lookin' at you, Taylor Swift).

[ October 29, 2011, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Sweet William ]

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roper66
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I guess I either need to turn in my man card or leave the church. Because I actually liked the last two books of the series. My wife and I read them. Together. Meyer definitely matured as a writer through the series.

*Spoiler*

Edward didn't do a C-section with his teeth. Vampire baby broke Bella's pelvis and ruptured her severely during delivery, so Edward had to bite her in several places, and inject his venom via syringe, to turn her immortal as quickly as possible, because she was dying.

I thought Meyer handled all of the improbabilities of the immortal/mortal union and offspring quite well. And Bella's new powers as an immortal really rocked when it was time to protect her loved ones.

Come on peoples, it's X-men for girls. The romance between Edward and Bella is less heinous than Mystique's contour-revealing skinsuits.

[ October 29, 2011, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: roper66 ]

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scruffydog
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My dear wife is the most intelligent, most cultured person that I know. She loves Twilight. I have to assume that there is some merit in the books, though I would rather read a functionalist analysis of Neolithic pottery decoration than that Mills & Boon vampire rubbish (I would choose scoop my eyeballs out with a spoon than read either).

My wife will happily admit that they are rubbish, but she likes the way that LDS themes emerge in books that are widely read by people that have no idea about the Gospel. I endured the first film and have nothing but admiration for anyone that can stomach the series. I salute your endurance.

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slader
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I travel a bit with work. My wife and I have a deal - she watches these movies when I am away, but not when I am home. I've flipped though a few pages of a couple of them, but couldn't bring myself to read one all the way through.

I often wondered if these books would be as popular with LDS women if Stephanie Meyer were not LDS.

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FlyByNight
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Not really serious about Twilight being a girly book. My real reason for not reading is that I've heard the book is written from a whiny teen's point of view.
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jaimilyn
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Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...

Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...

Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler..
.Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler... Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...Spoiler...

Spoiler...Spoiler...

Roper, since I haven't read the book in a while (as noted in the previous post, the fact that it's written from the viewpoint of some really whiny teenagers isn't a plus), but I do remember the birth scene vividly, so just for you, I pulled out the book.

On p.351 of the hardback, this is written from Jacob's POV

quote:
The next sound jolted through me, unexpected, terrifying. Like metal being shredded apart. The sound brought back the fight in the clearing so many months ago, the tearing sound of the newborns being ripped apart. I glanced to see Edward's face pressed against the bulge. Vampire teeth--a surefire way to cut through vampire skin.


[ October 31, 2011, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: EDGJanitor ]

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roper66
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You're right. I didn't remember that part. So...ewww! Thanks for the clarification, Jaimilyn. I don't see how they can possibly depict that in the movie directly and leave it with a PG-13 rating.
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jaimilyn
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It's ok, I can see why you might want to block that from your memory and all... [Angst]
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EDGJanitor
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quote:
Come on peoples, it's X-men for girls
This is the most hideously anti-woman sentiment I have ever seen on this board.

Go sit in the corner and think about what you have done.

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HalfABrain
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quote:
I endured the first film and have nothing but admiration for anyone that can stomach the series. I salute your endurance.
Noticing how a compliment can be paid from within an insult. Or is it an insult inside a compliment?
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Trimegistus
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quote:

quote:
Come on peoples, it's X-men for girls
This is the most hideously anti-woman sentiment I have ever seen on this board.

Go sit in the corner and think about what you have done.

EDG, At the risk of proving myself a neanderthal or at least sarcasm/irony impaired....

What in that sentiment did you find so anti-woman? Please elaborate.

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Jean Valjean
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Don't hold back, EDG. Tell us what you really think.
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LoReilly
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Jacare ... My niece is named Galadriel (they call her Gali for short) and it's not a bad name.

Jaimilyn ... re: your description of the last twilight novel ... I couldn't have said it better myself!

As for what EDG said: I'd assume she's referring the implied insult that X-men are only for boys. (As an avid hero fanatic and comic book collector who is female, I totally get her point, tho I think no offense was meant by roper's statement).

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roper66
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Gracie, I've thought about it. But I wasn't sitting in a corner. You're gonna have to elaborate some.

Here's what I meant about the the X-men comment:

X-men are rejected by society because they are different--mutants. But they have really cool powers. And they destroy bad guys. Come on, what boy hasn't had a fantasy about having superpowers, especially after getting bullied on the playground or dissed by his friends? The "outcasts with superpowers" is a powerful metaphor in our social psyche. Throw in adventure, explosions, and curvaceous women, and you've given your target audience everything they want.

The central theme of Twilight is the same. Bella is rejected because she's different. She finds a family she relates to better than she does with all her friends. This family has really cool powers. And they do good things. Come on, what little girl hasn't dreamed of finding acceptance like that when she's been teased and rejected by others? It's the same "outcasts with superpowers" metaphor. Throw in romance, family adoration, and immortality, and you've given your target audience everything they want.

That's why it's X-men for girls.

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EDGJanitor
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Bella is rejected because she is horrible. She is whiney, dishonest, self centered, and slightly less observant or savvy than my kitchen tile.

It isn't X-men for girls. It's the same old bodice ripper crap that has been sold to women (their own fault for buying that crap) for 100 years.

The first books features a dating relationship that ought to pin any parents ears back.

The X-men face some real dilemmas while they try to do good. Bella thinks of her self while she chews on her hair and tries to pick which super hot boyfriend she wants.

There are competent interesting women in X-men. Twilight has sparkly boys that must sleep in the girls bed for ya' know "protection". She is insufferably stupid but he loves with a love that dwarfs every other love because of the way her blood smells. And it's a good thing. Because stinky blood aside she doesn't have a lot going for her.

I have not read the last book. I do hear that she gets vampire powers and cowboys up. Let's contrast that with Samwise Gamgee who never waited to be called, or chosen, or special and just did the right thing for the right reasons.

I get that people like Twilight. But it isn't the woman's version of any interesting story thank you very much. It's a harlequin with some really dubious premises that require the cessation of any critical thinking for enjoyment.

If I want to see a girl go fight win- I pick Storm over Smella any day.

Lastly, Twitlight cannot be X-men for girls. X-men is already for girls. I submit as proof Hugh Jackman, Patrick Stewart, and James Marsden. I win.

[ October 31, 2011, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: EDGJanitor ]

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quidscribis
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I'm with EDG on this one, and not just because she's got steel toed boots. [Wink]
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Jen
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quote:
Let's contrast that with Samwise Gamgee who never waited to be called, or chosen, or special and just did the right thing for the right reasons.
[Clap]

quote:
Patrick Stewart
[Clap] [Clap]
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CrowGirl
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As far as I am concerned, Samwise Gamgee is one of the greatest heroes in literature. It is my biggest gripe with the film that he faced temptation and won...and it was glossed over as though it were nothing.

quote:
Hugh Jackman
[Big Grin]

The Twilight series does have some good points. The fact that I kept reading even though I was really really really really annoyed with the protagonist says something. Would I want my daughter to act like this? No. Would I want her going out with someone like Edward? Only for his attitude towards premarital relations. That being said, would I want him sneaking into her room at night just so he can hold her while she sleeps? Absolutely not ("Honey, where do you keep your piece?"). As too many youth find out, when you have two warm-blooded adolescents decide they are "just" going to "sleep" together, the end result is mostly quite different. And then, if they are stalwart LDS kids, comes the heartbreak, and the long road of repentance.

However, I choose to focus on how the Cullens overcame their own version of the Natural Man, and respect what Meyer was trying to do. I just accepted that I was not the demographic Meyer was trying to reach (but I have women older than me swooning over this fictional vampire. Where DO I fit in?). And if my girls ever pick up the series, I won't stop them, but we will discuss it afterwards.

[ November 01, 2011, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: CrowGirl ]

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scruffydog
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My big annoyance about the LoTR films was the way that Faramir was undermined. In the books, he sees the Ring for what it is and chooses against temptation. In the film, he has to be shown what is right by the hobbits. I wish that they had been a little more thoughtful in the adaptation. To my mind, it is an important support for Frodo that he meets people along the way that are capable of making the right choices, so he knows that he is not alone. [/derail, normal vampire bodice ripper service now resuming]
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roper66
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"Find the pain." It's a cardinal rule of marketing.

"Know your audience." It's a cardinal rule of writing.

Stephenie Meyer hit the bulls-eye with both. There's a reason why the Twilight books spent so many weeks on best seller lists.

Bella embodies the "nobody understands me" insecurity better than any modern literary character I can think of. And then Edward comes along and loves her, no, adores her, for who she really is. He doesn't want her to change. Ever. That's heady stuff. And the fact that we, as parents, don't like Bella proves the concept of her character: Nobody understands me. If only they could see what I'm really like inside. If only they would give me a chance and trust me.

It's easy to love a stalwart and faithful Sam Gamgee. That's not who Bella was meant to be. Bella was meant to be a whiny, self-absorbed, insecure teen who goes around seeking acceptance in all the wrong ways. She challenges everyone (including the reading audience) to see past all that, to find something redeeming, something worthy of love, in who she really is. Raise your hand if you know children in real life who are like that. [Wave]

FWIW: My favorite character in LOTR was Boromir. He was tempted by power and circumstances that clouded his judgment. He eventually gave in. In the end, he found redemption by sacrificing his life fighting to save those he had sworn to protect. There's a lot more depth and discovery there than with a character like Legolas, who is so far removed from human reality that we can admire him, but we can't really relate to his character in any meaningful way.

Okay, I need to stop. I'm beginning to sound like a Twilight apologist.

[ November 01, 2011, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: roper66 ]

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CrowGirl
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Roper, I think you nailed it. As a teen, I would have adored Edward and longed for someone like Jacob to want me, too. Maybe I just saw too much of who I used to be in Bella, because I truly felt that nobody understood me, and was annoyed by that.
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EDGJanitor
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quote:
And then Edward comes along and loves her, no, adores her, for who she really is.
Small correction- he loves her for how her blood smells. It isn't volitional. He didn't pick her.

quote:
She challenges everyone (including the reading audience) to see past all that, to find something redeeming, something worthy of love, in who she really is.
I did and she was just horrible. As the mother of (soon to be) 3 teen daughters I am a little horrified that Bella's pathological misery is being cast as teen reality.

That said, feel free to love Twitlight and find many redeeming qualities. I freely admit that I am not it's target audience since it has been many many years since stalking was romantic to me.

I did not object to your respect or defense of the worst novel of a generation. I was simply objecting to you claiming it was X-men for girls. It isn't. It is an overwrought romance novel.

[ November 01, 2011, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: EDGJanitor ]

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Jen
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quote:
My big annoyance about the LoTR films was the way that Faramir was undermined. In the books, he sees the Ring for what it is and chooses against temptation. In the film, he has to be shown what is right by the hobbits. I wish that they had been a little more thoughtful in the adaptation. To my mind, it is an important support for Frodo that he meets people along the way that are capable of making the right choices, so he knows that he is not alone.
I'm so glad to read someone else feels this way. Though the extended addition does his character far more justice.
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roper66
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quote:
That said, feel free to love Twitlight and find many redeeming qualities.
No need to be condescending, Gracie. We're just having a discussion about literature.
quote:
I was simply objecting to you claiming it was X-men for girls. It isn't. It is an overwrought romance novel.
Just as X-men is an overwrought comic book.
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EDGJanitor
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Sorry. I meant that to be silly and razzing rather than patronizing. I assumed you knew I have more respect for you than that. [Smile]
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roper66
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It's just hard to tell sometimes without a face-to-face. And even then, I usually get the cues wrong.

Now, if we had been discussing this while plinking away at a Bella-shaped target tied to a coupla hay bales, I would've got it. [Smile]

BTW, I think my next firearms purchase is gonna be a Ruger 10/22. .22 LR ammo is dirt cheap. And if I've gotta drive for a while to get to a safe place to shoot, I might as well spend the day there [Smile]

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EDGJanitor
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It actually occurred to me yesterday as I was brushing my teeth that the next gun we buy could be one I want. Now I have to think about it.
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Mormon_Yoda
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EDG,

I don't know you except for what you post here. But I think if you go look in the mirror and think back a few years when you were in your rebellious days you will see Bella staring back at you.

And for sure, there was someone out there who saw redeeming qualities in you, despite the 99% who just saw a rebellious teen.

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Jean Valjean
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Mormon Yoda,

As you acknowledge, you don't know anything about Gracie except what she's posted here.

So I give zero weight to what you just said.

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EDGJanitor
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Mormon Yoda, that was hilarious. My parents, my older brothers who tried to keep me alive, the personnel at all 4 high schools I attended and a few folks in law enforcement would have loved for me to be like Bella.

Yes there are girls who sit around and chew on their hair and cry because they just want a boy to love them.

I weren't one [Wink]

And all giggling aside- who I was when I was 16 is probably the reason I hate Bella so much. Not because I was like her and just wanted to be loved- but because she was safe and loved and made all her own problems.

[ November 02, 2011, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: EDGJanitor ]

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