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I don't know if anyone here watches it (it's one of my guilty pleasures, but I actually like Amazing Race more) but there is a girl who is a member on the next season of Survivor which starts on Feb 17.
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That was a nice bio. I also think it is neat that she is from South Carolina, thus showing the geographic breadth of the church.
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Shoot, before I saw her video I thought maybe there would finally be someone on Survivor wearing CLOTHES. It looks and sounds like her behavior won't be any different than the usual . She must not have made it to Seminary on the days they discussed modesty....
Posts: 339 | Registered: Dec 2004
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I am willing to let Ashlee be embarrassed all by her self.
Must...use...self.........control..........
I failed- Did she need to tell us that she breasts are huge? Did she really feel it was important to clear that up? Yikes.
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posted
Let's not judge her too quickly, I'm sure her ward will gossip her into little pieces and toss her into the funeral potatoes in the next ward social. She's not the only Church member with issues, after all.
I have a hard enough time showing my faith when a professor says something false or negative about Mormons, to say nothing of getting on national TV and shamelessly declaring, "I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." She deserves a little praise for that.
Posts: 854 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I wanna know what kind of people say things like, "You're a Mormon? Yet you have enormous breasts!" Is the non-sequitur there blowing anyone else's mind?
"You're a Baptist? But you're so tall!"
I am gonna need a few minutes for this one. Please excuse me.
*wanders off to until clarity sinks in*
Posts: 2973 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I admit, it took alot of work for me to post that non-judgemental, patient, forgiving post...
I mean, I don't understand how anyone with a testimony strong enough to declare, "I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" could do so while wearing a low cut, skimpy spaghetti strap. My own theory is that she went to BYU, didn't get married, as she had planned to do within the first semester, and so is now on TV declaring that she is a raving sex-goddess who is also a (soon to be rich) Mormon, somehow hoping and believing that she will attract a decent, Mormon guy in doing so.
But, to be fair, let's look at the pressure she's got. I mean, she's going to essentially be outdoors for the next weeks, hiking, swimming, and walking through mud. What do you expect her to wear, a knit turtle neck sweater and a nice long skirt? Not that there isn't a happy medium to be found, but I'm sure the show's producer's are quite skilled at unexpectedly expoiting the way they dress or the things they say. For example, her "video." Who knows what all she said, in comparison to what they showed? Who knows what context she said things in. Who knows if she even said the things she said in the order they show? If any of you have ever been interviewed for a newspaper and dismayed at the result, you'll know what I'm talking about. Of course, if she were to stand up to the producers, and insist on modesty in dress and speech, it would make a great story for the Ensign.
I'm just trying to be as non-judgemental and forgiving as possible (although I would NEVER date a Mormon girl REMOTELY like her!)
Posts: 854 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
ze I appreciate your patience and unfailing kindness towards all. I did PR for years and I know about being quoted and misquoted. It's frustrating and annoying. But through it all I never brought up my breast size. Not once.
quote: But, to be fair, let's look at the pressure she's got. I mean, she's going to essentially be outdoors for the next weeks, hiking, swimming, and walking through mud. What do you expect her to wear, a knit turtle neck sweater and a nice long skirt?
I own several t-shirts. I am willing to send her one. Free. I will even pay the shipping. When we go hiking we actually wear light long sleeve shirts for sun and bug protection. Of course we are not trying to win a million dollars as a sex symbol.
Listening to the host of survivor comment on each of the contestants made me so mad. He discussed her religion as a factor in the game and then asked "Can a mormon use sex appeal to get what they want?" Ashlee was chortling over being a mormon with big breast that dresses sexy.
She has chosen to be an ambassador for her faith, but seems intent on showing that mormon girls can be just like everyone else.
What happened to being a peculiar people?
I miss Ken Jennings.
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quote:She has chosen to be an ambassador for her faith, but seems intent on showing that mormon girls can be just like everyone else.
Except she pointed out how she's not like everyone else: no premarital sex, the action has to stop at kissing. In the larger world, this is regarded as very different and strange: most girls her age would not be willing to admit in public to being virgins.
And as regards the dress thing, an unendowed woman (not a teenager) wearing a sleeveless/spaghetti strap shirt doesn't register very high on the List of Things to Fret About for those of us who live outside the Mormon Culture Corridor.
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quote: Except she pointed out how she's not like everyone else: no premarital sex, the action has to stop at kissing. In the larger world, this is regarded as very different and strange: most girls her age would not be willing to admit in public to being virgins.
And in a world where mainstream churches downplay the significance of chastity, announcing to the world that even the most...um...liberal...Mormons still believe in virtue will probably do the Church more harm than good. Still, you're right, there are many Church members with alot more serious problems than that.
quote: And as regards the dress thing, an unendowed woman (not a teenager) wearing a sleeveless/spaghetti strap shirt doesn't register very high on the List of Things to Fret About for those of us who live outside the Mormon Culture Corridor
I don't understand this statement. Why should a young woman of 22 be held to any lower dress standards than a girl 4 years younger? She's still quite young and appealing to young men.
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That's what I'm talkin' about! I remember, one summer, before I was a member, going to St. George to a mall and wondering, "It's 120 degrees outside! What's with all these T-shirts-under-halter-tops?"
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quote:And in a world where mainstream churches downplay the significance of chastity, announcing to the world that even the most...um...liberal...Mormons still believe in virtue will probably do the Church more harm than good.
Why? The standard of the "world" is that the only chaste people are those who are very repressed and/or so ugly that they can't attract a member of the opposite sex. This is obviously not the case with our Survivor contestant. Young women in the "world," observing this, might ponder thusly: "Maybe chastity isn't just for squares and ugly people. Maybe it's also for attractive people with normal sex drives who choose to wait until marriage."
quote:Why should a young woman of 22 be held to any lower dress standards than a girl 4 years younger? She's still quite young and appealing to young men.
Because teenagers have no business appealing to young men, since they're not ready to get married yet. A woman old enough to marry has an actual reason to want to attract suitors.
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If you dress that way because you feel it's the only way you can appeal to men, it's quite possible you'll find the wrong kind of man. Most young men I know who are members of the church have high standards and would not be thrilled if she wore that shirt on a date, knowing it was not appropriate by church standards. The ones who would, are the ones who do not hold themselves or others to church standards.
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quote:If you dress that way because you feel it's the only way you can appeal to men, it's quite possible you'll find the wrong kind of man.
Exactly. The bait you use will determine what bites.
During my younger years I would not have been truly attracted to someone who apparently thinks little of dress standards for teenagers and those endowed which are intended to help keep us chaste and are just as important for those who have a goal of entering the temple.
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quote: Did anybody watch her video? How embarrassing for the church.
I must be oblivious. I didn't see her interview as offensive or embarrassing at all. To me, she seemed like an engaging person getting ready to play a game in which many players believe themselves governed by different standards during the game than they live by in daily life.
Posts: 1491 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
The thing that I thought when I saw what she was wearing wasn't that it was a sleveless spaghetti strap, but that it was a modest, one piece bathing suit. Compared to all of the next-to-naked girls that will be on the show, I'd say she's dressing very appropriately for the occasion. Sure a t-shirt would be more modest, but I think that many people will comment on the one piece bathing suit as being unusual.
---I can see that she's wearing the spaghetti strap tank top in the photos, it's in the video interview that she's wearing the bathing suit.
quote: And in a world where mainstream churches downplay the significance of chastity, announcing to the world that even the most...um...liberal...Mormons still believe in virtue will probably do the Church more harm than good.
Oops...It looks like I said the exact opposite of what I meant to say...what I mean was
quote:And in a world where mainstream churches downplay the significance of chastity, announcing to the world that even the most...um...liberal...Mormons still believe in virtue will probably do the Church more GOOD than HARM.
That should clear that up.
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I didn't mean to be judgmental about this girl. She's adorable and seems to have a fun, bubbly personality. But, I always want members to put their very best feet forward and I'm disappointed that she looked like she was sucked into the quagmire everyone else sinks into. I would love to see her uphold good LDS standards and do well on the show.
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posted
I agree with you %100 percent, Ryansmama. I am really dissapointed whenever I seen a Saint not portraying his or her standards in the best light possible. Modesty is VERY important to me. I just think it's difficult for us to see what's really going on with a game show contestant on a far away island. But, like someone above said, I would be seriously put off if got a date with a nice LDS girl and showed up to her door to find her in a low-cut strappy top or anything else immodest. I once was so dissapointed to see one female LDS friend wearing a bikini at a pool activity that I ran to another LDS friend who is super modest and gave her a hug and told her how much I really appreciate her modesty! (You hear that any young LDS girls out there!?? I am a guywho is attracted to modesty! Aren't I special? Posts: 854 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Hey, it makes sense to me. My husband says half the fun is watching me in my modest clothes and knowing that he's the only one who gets to know what's under them. Posts: 8155 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Well, her outfit doesn't seem any worse than some of the stuff I've seen my younger sister wear. And she's engaged to a perfectly respectable guy. (Of course, they're not LDS, but then I'm the only one of those in my family.)
And part of it may be a cultural thing: she's from the South, not the Mormon west. Maybe they don't stress the dress standards as much down there, just as nobody in my New Jersey ward worries too much if you drink a Coke (except the emigrants from Utah, who came here to make money).
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Members here in California have lower dress standards than the Saints I've met elsewhere. Two piece-bathing suits, for example, abound here in summer, and alot of girls/women wear them who are other wise very modest. Unfortunately, two-piece bathing suits are kind of the norm these days; for many people, the thought of modesty doesn't even strike their mind. That doesn't make it right.
I'm not sure modesty in dress is as much a cultural thing, or shoudl eb treated as much so, as people make it out to be. I've seen all the same clothes in Utah that I've seen anywhere else. Also, non-members Germans tend to be very liberal in their standards, and yet the members there, in my experience, tend to be more conservative in their dress and behavior than members in America.
Still, I appreciate your tolerance of Ashlee of Survivor's dress. We simply don't know her circumstances, we haven't even seen the show yet! What if she turns out to be the most modest person on the show?
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posted
I do know that the people on the show are required to wear some piece of clothing which advertises the show., that is why many of the women use a survivor scarf as a bikini top. Sheesh, I know way too much about this show and I don't even watch it.
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quote:Unfortunately, two-piece bathing suits are kind of the norm these days; for many people, the thought of modesty doesn't even strike their mind.
Maybe modesty depends at least partially on the cultural norms of the surrounding society. After all, nobody, LDS or not, who lived in Brigham Young's time would consider ANY of our modern bathing suits to be modest (esp. the women's suits, but the men's too). This includes the suit that I wear, which is a "colorblock" suit from Land's End with a fairly high neckline and fairly conservatively cut leg holes. (The high neckline helps create the illusion of a longer, slimmer torso than the short pudgy one I actually have, since there's a long unbroken stretch of fabric.)
I'd probably wear a less-conservative one-piece if I weighed about 50 pounds less.
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Whenever I hear a Latter-day Saint express their disappointment that other Latter-day Saints are not living their standards properly, I have to wonder whose standards they are talking about. Invariably, they are talking about their own personal standards, and it is not fair to expect several million people to interpret the admonishion regarding modesty of dress the same way.
The temple garment is our standard of modesty. I've heard the brethern say many times that "the garment can be worn with any modest clothing." It is easily infered that if the clothing cannot be worn with the garment then it is not modest.
We are also instructed to wear the garment "day and night," but none of us wear the garment all the time. There are times when it is not appropriate to wear the garment, and sometimes that includes theatrical productions when a costume must be worn. Survivor is supposed to be a "reality" show without scripts or costumes, but I think that's a lie none of us believe in anymore.
There are all kinds of Latter-day Saints.
Ken Jennings certainly didn't have any issues with modesty of dress while appearing on Jeopardy, but his demeaner struck one of my co-workers as a "smart-ass know-it-all," not a Christian standard by any means. She was glad to see him go.
I haven't watched a entire episode of Survivor. It bores the hell out of me, but I did watch a lot Real World New Orleans when Julie Stoffer was on, and I thought she was wonderful! I was very disappointed when BYU put her on probation for "sleeping with men." Unlike our bishops, the honor code committee doesn't seem to distiguish whether or not the men you're "sleeping with" are in your bed or down the hall in their own rooms.
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quote: Invariably, they are talking about their own personal standards,
No actually there are church standards for modesty. They are not geographic standards or cultural standards, they are church standards.
Her interview further reinforces the view of her as immodest given her focus her status as a sex symbol and discussing her breasts. She has chosen to direct attention at her body and sexuality. Now that's where the attention is.
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posted
Modesty does, I think, depend on its cultural context. I've seen pictures of President Hinckley attending a polynesian dance show at the Polynesian Cultural Center, featuring women dancing in strapless tops I'm sure 40 years ago, GA's urged women not to wear pants. They might have been provocative at the time, but they aren't anymore, unless they're tight or something. What's a little strange is to turn the argument around. What happens 20 years from now? Will two-piece bathing suits be fine, because they've become so accepted as to no longer be provocative? I mean, where do we stop? We do have the garments as a benchmark, but that won't as easily apply to the un-endowed, or to certain situations like athletics or balet dancing or at the beach and so on.
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Speaking of modesty, I was stunned today when a friend sent me a link to the wedding dress she'd just purchased. It had little cap sleeves. I said, "You do realize, don't you, that you won't be able to wear that dress as it is in the temple." She chirped back, "Yes, but they have inserts they can add in the temple to make it long-sleeved."
I didn't think the point was to buy a dress and rely on the inserts. I would have assumed the point was to buy a dress that didn't need sleeves to be attached or a modesty panel to be added in order to make it appropriate to be worn.
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. She must not have made it to Seminary on the days they discussed modesty....
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