posted
I just watched the clip at CBS.com where she talks about being "a sexy Mormon with humongous breasts", and I thought that was the most embarassing thing I've ever seen. And it's too bad she couldn't find a T-shirt or something.
posted
As someone who is put herself before the public, she shouldn't be surprised the group she has declared herself a part of comments about that display. She has in effect made herself a representative of Mormons by declaring herself as such to the world. Perhaps it would be poor form not to respond as a Mormon who doesn't believe we are being represented correctly?
Posts: 5633 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
i think she represents a new age of mormons who are much more prevelant outside of Utah. I understand about modesty, but are you saying Mormons shouldn't wear a stylish bathing suit?
Posts: 4 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I was kidding about my first post, but I mean, she's a beautiful girl, and granted she's showing some skin, but why can't a beautiful person's body be beautiful? She made it clear that she's not offering it up to anyone, and to me that's what counts. it's not like shes acting like a hooker and claiming to be a mormon. so far her actions are honorable and respectable in my opinion
Posts: 4 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I didn't have time earlier to do more than post the mention, but, I have to say that as a pr professional, I was quite surprised (okay - not really -- it's actually exactly what one would expect) and disappointed by this tactic used by the Trib columnist.
I take it none of the Nauvoo members who were quoted were contacted by Brandon Griggs. Did Griggs contact the site moderator(s) or administrators? Kathy?
Yes, this is technically a public forum and so part of the record that a reporter can draw on, but it's plain good reporting *and* Web etiquette to let someone know that you are going to quote them in a daily newspaper.
Of course, there's also the matter that ze_Mormon points out that Griggs basically cherry-picked quotes from what is a conversation and then embedded them in a different context. If I didn't already know this community, I would think that you are all a bunch of 'Utah Mormon,' self-righteous playa hatas -- which is totally not the case.
Both Utah dailies (but especially the Salt Lake Tribune) seem to have decided in the past year or so that it's okay to use online interactions in their reporting. They seem to be using this method as a lazy man-on-the-street reaction. I'm not saying that they should never use quotes from LDS-related fora and blogs, but they should follow the same protocols they would with other reporting and actually approach the sources they want to quote.
Briggs tries to get around that by quoting Nauvoo members anonymously, but that's a cop out.
This is yet another example of the mainstream media using Internet voices when it suits their needs, but then walling off the conversation because they want to control it.
You want to use quotes from Nauvoo? Fine. But then at least let the members you quote react to the story in the same place as where the column appears -- don't tell us to write a letter to the editor (which you then edit or choose not to run) or shunt us off to a forum most of your readers never visit.
What Briggs picked up on was a conversation. The Salt Lake Tribune should make it possible for that conversation to continue instead of this drive-by, use for their own needs stuff.
Posts: 172 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Ok, so the show has aired and I haven't seen anyone post anything about how she was on it.
I don't believe that a very high percentage of people will watch her introduction video, so I'm not really all that worried about her "humongus breasts" comment.
They actually didn't show her much at all, but what they did show of her, I thought she was looking extremely modest. She was wearing some kind of over the shoulder, knit, almost cardigan cut top (sorry, I'm a guy and I don't know what clothes are called).
I think that sometimes we (mormons) have a tendency to compare ourselves to each other, and then when we are placed in a world situation, we transfer those comparisons, but in the end we end up still being drastically on the conservative side. I'm sure she thought she was a wild and sexy girl who was very attractive -- and she is -- but I highly doubt that she will come anywhere near the imodesty of her fellow survivors.
I don't have a problem with what she was wearing in the video, a simple 1 piece bathing suit. That's pretty appropriate for hanging out at the beach or at a swimming pool. I think it's much better than what Neleh was wearing when she was on.
All in all, I'm feeling a little more optimistic about it. And they didn't show her much in the first episode, which makes me think she'll be on it for a while.
Posts: 29 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I agree, Zalmoxis. Although I felt that the article generally represented my feelings on the matter, it still left a bad taste in my mouth.
Perhaps the thing that bothers me the most is that only one side was represented. There were quite a number of posts here defending the girl, but the article gave the impression that nobody had anything nice to say. (Moreover, as has already been pointed out, two of the "not kind" comments that were quoted were not at all unkind.)
The writer also seems to have blown the discussion out of proportion. He says the internet boards have been buzzing for weeks about this video. But his only support for that was a citation to one message board where a small handful of people had made a few comments regarding it. (Not to mention the fact that the thread had already been dead for about 10 days). That's not an awful lot of buzz, if you ask me.
As for letting people know you are going to quote them, I must admit that I found it a little disconcerting that something I said to a relatively small group of friends was published in a rather large scale newspaper. Yeah, I know it is a public forum, but my expectation is that only those who frequent this forum will read it. When I post something on this board I don't expect that the entire Salt Lake Valley will read it (or worse, read an out of context portion of it).
Granted, my quote was placed in a context very much like the original -- so I have less to complain about than most. But the author did cut my statement in half, and it now appears more broad than the original.
As Zaloxis pointed out, it gives the appearance that we were all sitting around self-righteously judging her for not having as high of values as us. I don't believe that was the case. Rather, we were discussing the very public conduct of a person who set herself up as a representative for the church. I think it is fair to critique the public conduct of a person in such a position.
Posts: 865 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote: Ok, so the show has aired and I haven't seen anyone post anything about how she was on it.
I watched it. Nothing much to say. For a minute it looked like she wasn't even going to get picked for a tribe. She looked very worried and about to break down and cry. I can't imagine why a person would volunteer to be publicly humiliated on National TV. But there never seems to be a shortage of volunteers.
Posts: 865 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Don't they get like $10,000 just for being on the show?
I mean, I'd totally do that. A free trip to a desert island; be a total jerk; and get sent home at the first tribal council. I am absolutely CERTAIN that I could be the most annoying person on the island.
So $10,000 bucks for less than a week's work? Cool.
Posts: 8601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Oh, man, I remember watching that now. I was so glad when the singing English teacher got booted. How annoying. And the Nubian drill sargeant. I hope she wasn't surprised that everyone didn't like her.
Posts: 8601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I'm no media lawyer, but I believe that technically, postings to Internet fora are considered part of public discourse and so can be quoted without receiving the consent of those being quoted.
When you post, your words become "published." This is why you probably shouldn't post creative work online if want to then submit it to a publisher.
However, as I mention in my post, in my opinion, it's a breech of journalistic and net- etiquette.
It's also a symptom of lazy reporting [of which there seems to be a lot of these days].
Posts: 172 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
First time replying. I saw this forum mentioned in the paper this morning, so I decided to check it out. For several reasons, I generally try to stay out these types of LDS internet forums. The main reason I stay away is exemplified in this discussion. For some reason we (LDS people) have an uncanny way of making huge deals out really small things. Sure Ashlee may have said some things that weren't exactly flatering to the religion, but who hasn't. We should probably take a good look at each of our own lives, before we even think about judging (or speaking our opinions) about someone else's life. Regarding Ashlee's attire on the show: She is on an island, that is what you where when you are living on an island. The second reason I like to stay away from these forums is: It always seems that we (LDS People again) have a hard time with a basic principle of the church, AGENCY. We, including Survivor Ashlee have the right of agency in all we do and say and that should be a right without comment by anyone. There are only a few people with the right to judge us, and I would guess that not many of those people are participating in this discussion.
P.S. I would bet that based on her interview, there are a lot of good RM's out there right now, trying to get Survivor Ashlee return info. I would, she is pretty HOT!
Posts: 3 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: You want to use quotes from Nauvoo? Fine. But then at least let the members you quote react to the story in the same place as where the column appears -- don't tell us to write a letter to the editor (which you then edit or choose not to run) or shunt us off to a forum most of your readers never visit.
I've been in the paper three times and have been misquoted all three times. The last was a Letter to the Editor in the trib. When I read my letter I was rather uncomfortable because I didn't mean it like the way I said it. Then something bugged me enough that I pulled up the orignal I had mailed. Two or three words were all that was changed but it gave this subtle change that certainly wasn't the way I felt. I wonder how many others have had this same problem with the trib.
posted
LDSLiberal, if, as you say, we have the right to do or say what we want without comment by anyone, why are you here commenting on what people are saying? In addition, did you bother to read the whole thread, or were you so outraged by the newspaper article that you jumped right in and posted? There has been a variety of opinion on this thread, and some of the quotes you read mean different things in different contexts. BTW, the freedom to choose ones actions and words does not include the freedom to not have people comment. And no one here, to my knowledge, was planning to picket her house and scream epithets at her. We were merely discussing her behavior in context of openly declaring herself to be a mormon in her taped interview.
Posts: 1677 | Registered: Nov 2002
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Before you make sweeping statements about the participants in this board perhaps you should get to know us.
-------- yungmom:
I'm not suprised to hear that.
I should also say that I know reporters who do good work and are respectful of those they work with even as they agressively pursue a story.
Posts: 172 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Do you think LDSLiberal will actually read what you wrote? This person obviously did not read the rest of the thread, so why should he or she bother to see our reaction.
Posts: 894 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote: I should also say that I know reporters who do good work and are respectful of those they work with even as they agressively pursue a story.
You're right. I actually can't remember the circumstances of one the times. The second time I think it was a matter of just not taking down things word for word (just quoted it that way) and was an honest mistake. This was in the Logan Herald Journal.
It's only the Letter to the Editor that I am really irritated about. The letter wasn't shortened. There were other things that could've have been edited to make them more concise. The words were used correctly (gramatically) and were easy to understand. Just the whole changing of it somehow makes me think it was done on purpose to change the meaning of what I said.
Thank you for pointing this out. I have let my trib experience color all my experiences with the news. Before this I actually had a high regard for the news. I had even wanted to be a reporter at one time! Now perhaps I can go and read the news with a more critical eye and not a cynical one.
It doesn't matter. What matters is that new members and lurkers understand that we welcome necomers, but at the same time expect them to try to become part of our community and relate to us as such.
Posts: 172 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Geez, I was just sort of making an off-the-cuff remark - and they quote it as if I was being a whole lot more snipish than I meant. Now that article has even brought a troll into our midst.
I've been quoted in the Logan Herald Journal too, and my comment made to sound different than the context of the conversation I had with the reporter, so I guess this time I should just be glad that my name wasn't attached.
Posts: 339 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
There you have it, Zalmoxis. You asked if I'd been forewarned about the quotes, and how I felt about the publicity. I didn't feel at all bad about the quotes -- I only thought, Sheesh. Now even MORE people are going to learn about us. Even if 95% of them are great new friends, the rest of them are going to be trolls.
It's too early for me to say, "point taken," but I think some of the members of the jury have already voted ... and they may well be right.
As for all journalists being slime, I have some hair-curling stories about the news media myself. However, as a bona fide newspaper reporter and current magazine associate editor, I want to say that when I write news stories I work my bunny tail off to make sure I quote everyone right.
posted
VERY BAD journalism for sure. Not just unethical, not just misquotant, and not just biased. I admit to never having seen ALL of what you aren't supposed to do as professionals in such a short article. Probably the only thing the reporter didn't do is print legally qualifying libel.
posted
The Tribune article was also linked in LDSToday so it is getting some mileage nationwide. Kathryn, I just thought I would warn you.
Posts: 5633 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
I just wanted to go on record as saying I have never been misquoted by the Logan Herald Journal.Posts: 1046 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote: For some reason we (LDS people) have an uncanny way of making huge deals out really small things.
As I said in my previous post, the author of the newspaper article made this into a far bigger issue than it ever was on this board. Over the period of about a week, a handful of us commented on this video and the thread quickly died. We moved on. No big deal. But according to the newspaper article, the LDS message boards have been buzzing for weeks about this issue.
quote: Sure Ashlee may have said some things that weren't exactly flatering to the religion, but who hasn't. We should probably take a good look at each of our own lives, before we even think about judging (or speaking our opinions) about someone else's life.
Apparently, you did not read this thread before posting. The main point we were addressing is the fact that she said these things publicly on an interview for National TV. I think it is safe to say most of us have not publicly embarrassed the church on National TV. People who set themselves up as public figures invite comment. We were commenting on her public performance in the interview. I don't think anybody here was judging her life.
quote: It always seems that we (LDS People again) have a hard time with a basic principle of the church, AGENCY. We, including Survivor Ashlee have the right of agency in all we do and say and that should be a right without comment by anyone.
Interesting. Up until now, I had no idea that agency meant that I had the right to publicly do and say whatever I want without having anybody comment on my words or actions!
Now that I have a new understanding of agency, I am shocked and appalled that LDSLiberal came to this board and stripped me of my agency by commenting on my comment! Posts: 865 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
It was my impression that this wasn't "journalism" per se. This column seems to be more of the musings/hey-isn't-this-interesting type that was so popularized by the San Francisco Chronicle's Herb Caen.
How many pieces of "real" journalism end with this:
quote:" Do you have an entertainment news tip, celebrity sighting or comment about pop culture in Utah? Send it to -------@sltrib.com."
posted
What the??? You bickerers give Mormons a bad name. I was letting a friend read entries and she thinks we all have too much time on our hands. Can't you just let it go? You have to steam on and pontificate about this girl who is somehow now the new spokesperson for the LDS church? Why dont you go outside and take a walk on this glorious day?
Posts: 4 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
JonB is right! We should send Culture Vulture our UTAH! thread! Then he could quote Pink Floyd telling everyone how awful Utah is, and that they should stay where they are. That should go over well. Posts: 4767 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
SO matty, I was just wondering if you were typing your little chastisement from a handheld computer as you were taking a walk on this glorious day. I certainly hope so. Other wise you might come off as a bickerer with to much time on your hands.
Also, hang out very long and you will find out that this is far from the lamest thing that we have yammered on about. We went for a total of 7 pages on __________ alone. (I won't be the one that brings it up again)
quote: You have to steam on and pontificate about this girl who is somehow now the new spokesperson for the LDS church?
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