posted
Moroni, You might have a stock of witty repartee for such abominable situations, like.
I don't define myself by my struggles. I'm not really interested in seeing those I meet in light of their temptations. It would be like defining these sweet sisters as gossips or hate mongers, and how unfortunate that would be.
I heard Malcom X say once that the price of hating another human being is loving ones' self less.
SSA stands for shoes, socks and ashcakes. It's what I wear when I go tracting with the missionaries.
Okay, so none of them are witty repartee! Maybe you can do better.
Posts: 2204 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: I don't define myself by my struggles. I'm not really interested in seeing those I meet in light of their temptations. It would be like defining these sweet sisters as gossips or hate mongers, and how unfortunate that would be.
I heard Malcom X say once that the price of hating another human being is loving ones' self less.
pnr, I think both of these rock . those are two lines I wish I could have come up with some years ago (we need a thumbs-up icon here)
Posts: 1885 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Its true it is too easy to define people by how they struggle rather than as a child of GOD the SAME God, and maybe we could show people how to walk closer to him than tell people that God doesn't want them...
boardmadd, pnr you guys are rock stars Posts: 715 | Registered: Mar 2006
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This may be completely contrary to "good advice" but, well, have you considered moving to San Francisco or the surrounding areas? Frankly, we have *great* YSA wards here, though they tend to be a bit quirky . Plus, there's just a very different attitude about SSA out here. Of course, that different atitude about SSA may also be playing with fire, but hey, it never hurts to throw it out there (it does cost a lot more to live here than it does to live in Utah, though).
Posts: 1885 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Moroni: Bottomline, you're not a victim. Try to refrain from making all things about you, and you'll be happier (that's hard to do as everything has to be experienced through your eyes, ears, nose, mouth, etc... but it's good advice, nonetheless). Keep smiling, and give that ol'devil a nice Karate Chop to the throat.
Kiyah!
--Ray
PS> Ftr, I've never emailed you, sorry to hear you're having problems with it.
Posts: 13208 | Registered: Oct 98
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"Plus, there's just a very different attitude about SSA out here. Of course, that different atitude about SSA may also be playing with fire"
Ohhhh.... I don't know about this, Boardmadd. I'd say if a person wanted constant validation & approval of the SSA lifestyle, the Bay Area would be perfect. And like you suggested, that could be literally playing with fire. It's all too easy to fall into bad habits of all kinds, & all too tough to follow any kind of righteous lifestyle, in such a worldly-minded place.
Now I'm no mind-reader, but that doesn't sound like what Moroni wants or needs. He might want a place where people get validation & approval for being Christian & trying to follow God's laws. Posts: 13024 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Acctually I have never acted on it and NEVER will.
Minneapolis truely is one of the most "gay friendly" cities in the US (wolrd) and It seems like its been a good front for me to fight my battles on
Posts: 715 | Registered: Mar 2006
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pnr that is a great response, I am going to learn that phrase off by heart, somehow I have a feeling I would be using it much Posts: 4584 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: Ohhhh.... I don't know about this, Boardmadd. I'd say if a person wanted constant validation & approval of the SSA lifestyle, the Bay Area would be perfect. And like you suggested, that could be literally playing with fire. It's all too easy to fall into bad habits of all kinds, & all too tough to follow any kind of righteous lifestyle, in such a worldly-minded place.
Hi Curelom. That was my point. It's a double edged sword. Because it's such a pervasive issue here, and so many people do look at it as "just another lifestyle", the LDS wards in this area (at least in my experience) tend to me more accepting of people in general. I'm not at all suggesting that they accept sinful behavior, but what I am suggesting is that having a desire to live a Christ like life is commended, and there is a bit more empathy for those who deal with SSA, and choose to live righteously. There's a lot less finger-pointing about that kind of stuff here, and at least, in my experience, I don't think I would ever her anyone saying "you know, this ward would be so much better without *your* kind here!" We have our own challenges on the Peninsula and in the City, to be sure, but in many aspects, just the fact that you are "one of us" tends to make people less reactionary to whatever your personal issue might happen to be.
That's why I think it's great to live here; since we all have to struggle with our membership in this outpost of Zion in the middle of Sodom & Gomorrah (OK, not literally, but you get what I mean ), getting hung up on matters that don't contribute to that is less common out here than in other places. It's not non-existant by any means, but far less common than in other parts of the county (and lots less than even the east bay where I grew up).
Posts: 1885 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ya now... I spent a few days in Little Rock when I worked for a previous company, and it's acutally a pretty nice town. Definite hardcore Southern Baptist area, but there are LDS wards there . The waterfront area is really nice and has an active nightlife (if you're looking for an active nightlife, that is ).
Posts: 1885 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Yup, Boardmadd--it definitely can make people stronger. And you're right that it can work both ways. I've heard of people who came to the Bay Area to go to school, establish themselves in a career, "see the elephant," etc., & moved here without any family, friends, etc. Most likely, the folks back home warned them about what a wicked & evil place they were going to, & promised to pray for them, etc
Some people really flourish, just like sometimes the best plants & flowers thrive among the weeds ( --not implying that any person or people are weeds). And some people find that it's easy to get lost (either because they wanted to or, sadly, because they fall through the cracks). So they fall out of Church activity & into some bad habits that they either newly discovered or had tendencies for to begin with.
If (hypothetically( Moroni were to move here & become a strong & faithful member of his YSA ward, he'd be a fine example for all kinds of young adults, all of whom have challenges of different kinds.
Apologies to Moroni--please don't think we're talking around you or trying to carry on a conversation about you as if you weren't here!
Posts: 13024 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Remember the reporter from NYU that thought George and Jerry were gay lovers?
I'll never forget him saying, "You think I'm gay? I'm not gay, Tell you what, do you want to have sex with me right now?....."
That would stop her in her tracks... 'course you're not George Costanza either and that certainly wouldn't be your style but it might make people think about what a horrible thing it was she had said by you responding in kind.
Hang in there. Some folks are just crass and mean. You have a great spirit. I am certain that what the SP and Bishop have told you is true. You are one of HF choice sons and he has great things in store for you. Continue to help others, find yourself a choice daughter of God to take to the House of the Lord where you can be sealed forever... That's what He wants for you. You'd be a great dad too I imagine.
Posts: 216 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Moroni, I have been wondering. You have lead me to believe that you have struggled, do struggle and will continue to struggle with SSA. I have no feelings or thoughts particularly about SSA but I just was wondering why you, Moroni, seem to need to make SSA a part of nearly everything you talk about. At least it seems that way to me. Maybe I just am more private about intimate matters, and I am being judgemental. But do you is it on your mind 24/7, the burden of being so challenged? Do you think part of your progression will be to finally let it go?
I wonder because I have a couple of earth burdens that I drag around myself and I pick at them in the back of my mind often. They are intimate self-image related challenges too. But I am hesitant to even share their existance even on an anonymous space like this because I sometimes think talking about some things gives them a life and a power of their own which may get to big for me to cope with.
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well its been a real bugger, and I try to make light of it as much as possible and try to use it in conversation as and it seems the more i use it in discussion and so on, the less it burdens me. I went to lds family services and also spent alot of time in Evergreens, and they have said to not try to burry it in the back some where but be open about it to people and be ok with that being part of who you are not what you are.
Plus I wanna be open and honest you never know who might read a post and find hope for a friend, son/daughter, brother/sister, mom or dad or one's own self.
If these threads are supposed to be in accordance with the scriptures, i wanna be a voice that I have and am overcomming, just as much I would not be upset by someone threading their overcomming or any other addiction to alcohol or drugs, many people find that the more they talk about it the easier it is to deal with.
And ya I am a very open person, mostly because no one on here really "knows" me. Well a couple people do and they are not as threatened by my posts as you seem to be.
there are others that have posted several times their trials and tribulations in dealing with certain aspects in life I am no different just a different struggle that may or may not offer help to anyone reading them
If I have made you feel threatened I apologise, but I feel when you get down to the bare nitty gritty I want to be someone who rejoices in the Lord carrying me when I look back and only see one set of foot prints in the sand...
Posts: 715 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Wise words Jana, I agree, it seems the more I dwell too openly on some of my short comings they worsen, the more I keep them more private, like between me and the Lord, then I make a little more progress. Sometimes , keeping mouth shut is the hardest part.
Posts: 682 | Registered: Jun 2005
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I find that there are some threads that dont interest me or that even slightly bother me I just refrain from posting a thread on them I know sometimes thats hard, but sometimes its best to just ignore something I dont like
Posts: 715 | Registered: Mar 2006
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PP you are so awesome thank you so much for always looking at everything so perfectly its just a freindly jesture!
Posts: 715 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Good thoughts PP, I think we all do handle things diferently and we can also learn from one another, I am surprised how open I am with other things in my life, but there are a few things that to me I work better on when I don't get the worlds feed back on , or others negatives ractions. They are important enough that a change needs to be made,so then on those things I become very private.
But as was said in some parts of GA., " to own a peach" translated to mean, " to each his own."
Posts: 682 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:are not as threatened by my posts as you seem to be.
You are mistaken when you believe that people who think discretion is good, are threatened. I think that Jana gave wise counsel. My understanding is that the more we repeat something to ourselves, the more we become it. For most people, it is wiser to repeat the positive, the things we wish to become.
Thankfully, you are a free agent and get to indulge in "self talk" any way you wish.
Posts: 5137 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Michael Medved has a nice way of putting it, "It used to be that SSA was 'the Love that Dare not Speak it's name', now it's 'the love that won't shut up.'"
Moroni: I've tried a number of times to deflect your mind from things you can't do much about (your urgest in regards to SSA) to things that help you and are positive that don't continually bring up the idea.
I think that's an important aspect of recovery. You're not being dishonest if you discuss your feelings about parenting without divulging whether or not you've had (for example) fertility challenges.
Sometimes I think we use our weaknesses to garner sympathy for our arguments, while not fully thinking out the consequences of our arguments in the first place.
If I reveal that I have SSA, suddenly all my discussions on the topic gain more "credibility", regardless of whether they are sensible or not. I think this is really where we should show some restraint.
Christ taught us that we should go about our business praying in secret, fasting in secret, not making a big show of our weaknesses, carrying our crosses, but not making a big deal about them.
I hope you don't see that as criticism, we all have to learn temperance and patience, and all the other aspects. And your concerns are legitimate, especially when someone in your own ward goes out of their way to make you feel rotten, but let's be respectful of children and others who have innocent and pure minds without the need to dip them in our own personal dishwater.
Jacob who was the called prophet of God lamented that he had to speak of controversial things in the Book of Mormon, when he explained the weight of his calling... to place daggers in the minds of some.
Here's the text from Jacob 2:
quote: 6 Yea, it grieveth my soul and causeth me to shrink with shame before the presence of my Maker, that I must testify unto you concerning the wickedness of your hearts.
7 And also it grieveth me that I must use so much boldness of speech concerning you, before your wives and your children, many of whose feelings are exceedingly tender and bchaste and delicate before God, which thing is pleasing unto God;
8 And it supposeth me that they have come up hither to hear the pleasing word of God, yea, the word which healeth the wounded soul.
9 Wherefore, it burdeneth my soul that I should be constrained, because of the strict commandment which I have received from God, to admonish you according to your crimes, to enlarge the wounds of those who are already wounded, instead of consoling and healing their wounds; and those who have not been wounded, instead of feasting upon the pleasing word of God have daggers placed to pierce their souls and wound their delicate minds.
10 But, notwithstanding the greatness of the task, I must do according to the strict commands of God, and tell you concerning your wickedness and abominations, in the presence of the pure in heart, and the broken heart, and under the glance of the piercing eye of the Almighty God.
11 Wherefore, I must tell you the truth according to the plainness of the word of God. For behold, as I inquired of the Lord, thus came the word unto me, saying: Jacob, get thou up into the temple on the morrow, and declare the word which I shall give thee unto this people.
Jacob makes the claim for the need of great plainness in speach because of his calling, but we are just LDS members. We have no such calling. Our individual experiences vary, and there are those who have innocent minds here, and I respect them and love them for it. God delights in such things. It is why the blood of the innocent cries up to God.
While I was on my mission I had a greeny who believed I could do nothing right. At first I felt like I had to prove to this greeny that the world was a rough place and that mission life was not all white handbook, that you had to follow the Spirit of the law. This was the way my trainer taught me, and he tried really hard to squash the greenie in me.
But then I got to thinking. I liked the greenie that'd been in me. I had no right to squash this guy's testimony, just because it'd been done to me.
I made it my goal to do my best to respect his opinions though during the duration of our time together he was never fully satisfied with my labors and thought I was something of a slacker.
I tried my best to let him have his way, to go the extra hour tracting, or whatever.
And you know, I'd like to report that I had enormous success, but I didn't.
However, he did. As he moved out to other areas, he got to be a senior companion, and apparently had a great deal of success in a small mountain city in Italy. I was so happy for him. At a zone conference he even told me that he was sorry for being so unhappy with me, and confessed he never really thought about how hard it was to be a senior companion until he was one.
I told him my secret. It's been something that's stuck with me ever since.
I recognize in myself failures that I can never fully live down in this life, but I trust in Christ, and am on the train. I just count myself lucky to be onboard. I often am guilty of being too silly myself, and Gracie keeps me on the straight and narrow.
That said, I appreciate those folks who come here looking for solace from the world and hope we can all find it. I also appreciate those who can share their unique wisdom. Hopefully we can all be human beings regardless of our challenges and weaknesses.
posted
Ray, a lot of the time your posts are just light-hearted fun, but when you have something serious to say, you say it beautifully. Posts: 1389 | Registered: Jan 2006
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I appreciate your post, ray. Very nicely done. It gave me a lot to think about, and caused me to examine myself and see if there are any things in my own life that I carry around in the way you spoke about. There are a few left (in spite of my best efforts), and I am grateful for the reminder to focus on them and put them in their proper place.
I find that as I grow and become more "safe" in the knowledge of my Savior, I have less of a need to wear my burdens (past, present, or future) on my sleeve and identify myself by them.
And please, before anyone finds fault with my statement above--it is true for me. Not saying it is an absolute truth. But it is true for me.
quote: Whatever happened to not reading a certain thread or restraining yourself from posting if you knew it would just result in bad feeling and contention? I know I've had to do than more times than I can count on my fingers and toes here. And there are still certain members here whose posts I know not to read because I find them, in general, very demeaning and hurtful.
I second this idea as well. I'm right there with you Princess.
Posts: 5737 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I appreciate how polite everyone is trying to be. Let's keep the focus on principles and ideas rather than our thoughts on other Nauvoodles.
Posts: 8105 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Contention and insult are far from my intent. I have attained a certain balanced understanding of SSA persons in my lifetime and because Moroni is so open I felt I could pose my inquiry to him so I could add to my information base: who better to ask?. I never thought about being me feeling threatened (threatened by what? It does not change my life or relationship with Heavenly Father) nor was I intent on impugning integrity, but I am troubled by what seems to me a constant picking at a scab by a young man who hurts. And that bothers me most... he has enough salt in his wounds without any extra from me. Moroni encourages open communication so I asked my question. So let us not read into Jana's posts things which Jana never intended. Deal?
quote: they have said to not try to burry it in the back some where but be open about it to people and be ok with that being part of who you are not what you are.
Something about that advice is unclear to me. For instance: Does that go for all persons who have overcome sexual control issues? Should a person who has been overcome wonton sexual activity spend the rest of their adulthood announcing that fact in their first introductions? Or any control issue? If one has repented and convenanted to do it no more, is that sin not wiped from the slate and made clean? Then why speak of it again?
I originally based my question on personal burdens which I drag around rather privately. After everyone else chimed in, I was a little upset that there were assumptions of censure. Well, yes, in my family we had lots of secrets that had NOTHING to do with discresion and everything to do with power and coercion. I think families should be open with one another. But how far out is that circle?
If I do not want the town biddies to gossip about me why hand them the opportunity?
You have sterling qualities, M. I like you a lot. I think it stinks that people say such incautious and hurting things...Just be glad my mother is not in your radar. Posts: 5575 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Well I appreciate your clarifications Jana, I have been told in many meetings with Bishopric as well as so many others that it is indeed ok to talk about these things openly. My goal is not to say look at me or pitty me. I have never indulged in carnal behavior because as soon as i recgnised a problem I went right to my Branch Pres. since then I have been working on these things. Kinda like testimony meeting, I share openly so that maybe one personally struggling can find hope in my overcoming and know that there are alterneatives to giving in. I have received many other emails that are very good and appreciative from people thanking me for sharing my struggles as it has helped them to not feel so alone when they have been made to feel that they need to hide thier issues and bottle them up. So like F&T meeting if one person is touched or helped then my goal is accomplished. Case in point, I have a F&T meeting where I bore my testimony about where we come from as I am from a VERY small town not even on the Map and moved to a Metro of 4.5 million. Many people here are very different and some from my home town have changed too. I bore my witness that it doesn't matter if we come from a ritzy glamerous city or a Dairy farm. After I was told my many congregates that my testimony was stupid and worthless and not relevant to any testimony, a young woman came up with tears in her eyes and gave me a piece of paper and handed it to me, and left the building. The content of the note was so up-lifting in that she had felt like no one knew where she was coming from or what she was about as she was also from a small town and felt so alone and after my testimony she wrote that it appeared as though I was "glowing"
Thats my goal Bros and Sis' to shine my light in a way that those who need to see it, will.
Posts: 715 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Moroni, personally, I think you are an inspiration to those of us who struggle with demons, they might not be the same as your struggles, but they are struggles all the same, and I for one have been uplifted by your comments.
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. those are two lines I wish I could have come up with some years ago (we need a thumbs-up icon here)
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I don't know about this, Boardmadd. I'd say if a person wanted constant validation & approval of the SSA lifestyle, the Bay Area would be perfect. And like you suggested, that could be literally playing with fire. It's all too easy to fall into bad habits of all kinds, & all too tough to follow any kind of righteous lifestyle, in such a worldly-minded place.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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--not implying that any person or people are weeds). And some people find that it's easy to get lost (either because they wanted to or, sadly, because they fall through the cracks). So they fall out of Church activity & into some bad habits that they either newly discovered or had tendencies for to begin with.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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its just a freindly jesture!
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