posted
By the way, this is what it looks like when you've sucessfully forgiven folks, and are cultivating the love of Christ in your heart.
quote:it WAS hard to help our children to understand that their grandparents did love them, but that they simply did not have the "tools" with which to show that love in a way that we recognized. ... They are honestly not cruel; they do try to be kind most of the time. ... These days, I am at peace because I can logically see the bigger picture. ... I can let all that go, because I am not her judge, anymore than she should try to be mine. The day I accepted that, my heart was FREED in a way I cannot explain. I know that the Savior loves my in-laws. I don't personally feel He likes the hatred that is thrown towards our involvement in the church, but I know that He knows the content of their hearts, and I feel confident that He can help us work it all out. Additionally I have accepted that "working it out" probably won't happen in this life, but greater miracle have happened, so who knows. ... Accepting and letting go has been the greatest gift I have had in my relationship with MIL in 23+ years. ... it IS possible to lay them at the Saviors feet and not just grin and bear it... and you really don’t have to fix the problem either! Each year this approach get easier and easier for me.
posted
Thanks, PollyAnna. I appreciate your sharing of your experiences more than I can say.
quote: I guess we had just gotten to the point where church topics never came up, and I misunderstood the silence to be acceptance
This is VERY much the way things are with Trooper's family. We just don't talk about things that will let the ugly out, so to speak. I think I HAD mistaken the silence to be acceptance and that is why this thing has hit me so hard. I have felt nothing but love and appreciation for years for my MIL, and the anger that I am feeling towards her about this now is truly shocking to me. I am shocked and appalled at MYSELF!!! It is that allowed at this stage of the thread???
When you ignore something and steer away from thinking about certain topics where some people are concerned, you kind of forget almost. And this has reminded me, and the result has not been pretty.
And--just to lay the cards out on the table--I am having some struggles in my marriage right now. I adore my husband and know to my core that he is a good man. But he has some perspectives and attitudes that are painful in a marriage (or at least, in a marriage where one of the partners is me), and they are part of the legacy from his mother. And since that is a daily weight for me right now, perhaps my MIL's actions are the straw on my camel's back.
Thanks again to everyone. Please continue if you have more to add. Don't mind calling me out if you feel you should. I know that I need to get both stronger and softer and need help to do that.
Posts: 4321 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I've had issues with my MIL since day 1. All of her daughters-in-law are treated as second-class citizens at least some of the time if not most of the time. My hubby did learn some of her less-than-desirable behaviors, especially when it comes to conflict. So when we're going through a rough patch, it's really hard not to think, "Oh he's JUST like her!" or "Gee thanks, MIL, for teaching hubby to be _______ ." Thankfully he's usually willing to recognize those tendencies, once he's calmed down.
I guess my point is, don't be too hard on yourself. It's tough to come into another family and to try and understand their different (and sometimes dysfunctional) ways of dealing with things.
I brought in my family's own brand of dysfunction, so I suppose it evens out in a way.
posted
Here are my thoughts: 1. You hurt her feelings. 2. She hurt your feelings. You can stop right now or you can continue the one-upmanship of hurt feelings. Maybe you didn't mean to hurt her feelings. Maybe she meant to hurt yours. Or maybe not.
The point is, you are dealing with feelings. Anything you do more to bring her into line, will just heighten the hurt feelings. You do something and she'll do something back. And so it goes. It won't bring understanding. It won't bring love. It won't bring peace. And it certainly won't bring a closer relationship to your husband.
Think about it: the two most important women in his life arguing about what? A $25.00 gift card? Perhaps you don't think she should be important to him? If not, remember at the very least, she gave him life and that alone counts for something.
At some point, someone is going to have to stop and be the 'adult' or the 'bigger man' and cross this divide. My suggestion is that it be you. It will be a service that you give her that she may never thank you for. Work on your relationship to her and in future years maybe you both can laugh about how silly you both were.
If you still need to fume, fume with a friend that will listen, laugh and help you overcome - not someone that will help you to become more resentful. my 2cents.
Posts: 5091 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Casi, I don't want to you think that I believe you don't have the right to your feelings, or attitudes OR solutions. I think you are a wonderful person that has much to give, and great ideas to contribute to the discussions on this forum. I always appreciate your comments. Even when I disagree with them, they make me think.
However on this one I disagree, and quite strongly. Hubby has gone about his healing process in a very different way than you intimate is healthy. He grew up in a very difficult family climate. I believe because I have seen him accomplish it, that there is nore than one way to be healthy. I don't say hubby's way is the only way. It has merely worked for us.
quote: My hubby did learn some of her less-than-desirable behaviors, especially when it comes to conflict. So when we're going through a rough patch, it's really hard not to think, "Oh he's JUST like her!" or "Gee thanks, MIL, for teaching hubby to be _______ ."
Please don't feel picked on Jen. I just keep thinking about this a lot. I have noticed people doing this before, and it just has really been on my mind.
I have 6 kids. In them I see every fault that I have. I hate that. I hate that the things I stuggle with exist in them. But they do. IT kills me.
You can lookat my kid and say, "Oh he gets his temper from his momma." He does. But will my DIL also see that he was my baby? Will she see that I loved him? I am not perfect. I may annoy her, heck sometimes I annoy myself.
But will she only think of me when she hates what he is doing? Yes, my boy is stubborn like me. I'll take that. But he also stood with me for 6 hours while we built that stupid birdhouse, took time out for stitches and came home and finished it. When he finishes things, will that be me too?
So I'm not the most snuggly person in the world. Maybe my kid will have that too. But will she also remember that I stayed up for 1 year listening to that kid's monitor and changing his tubes and taking him to endless doctors appointments?
When he yells will that be my fault? How about when he is so sweet that she cries? Is that me too?
I used to be pretty hard on my MIL. I didn't like some things she did. I imagined that she didn't treat hubby the way she should or that she made mistakes with him. I was right. But I don't always treat him the way I should. I make mistakes with him.
And no, she isn't the kind of mother that I am. But she is the kind of mother that raised a man that I want to be with forever.
My father is a very difficult man. He has created serious harm for his children. There have been long term reprecusions from that. My husband and I have suffered for that. And he is distanced from our family so that we can ensure our children's safety.
But here's the dirty little secret- he did his best. He really did. He let me down. He broke my heart. A lot. But he did better for me than anyone did for him. And just as surely as you can see his faults in me, you can see the good things he did too. There is a mix. I can choose to act like the worst version of him or I can choose to try to build on the best things he gave me.
I try to show this to my kids. Not because I am so great and wonderful and want them to see how magnanimous and forgiving I am, but because I am showing them today how to treat me later. And frankly I really do hope that they will show me some forebearance. I hope they will be forgiving of my many faults.
I do not wish to control or injure them but the reality is that since each party defines those things differently, I may end up being a cross to bear for some poor son or daughter in law. You can see just in Nauvoo how differently we all define things. How easy it will be for me to run afoul of someone elses standards or expectations.
I do not want any of my children to allow me to harm them or their spouses. I don't want to cause any harm. But if I blow it or if there is a major personality clash, I really hope that some credit will be given for birdhouses and late nights and good intentions.
I hope that I will be welcomed even though I am flawed. I hope that the people who marry my kids know that no matter how they feel about me the only people who can possibly understand how much they love my son or daughter are me and their dad.
Because I loved them first, imperfectly, just like they will.
posted
On the way out of the theatre (went and saw Santa Clause 3) I heard a pair of teenagers, bodies close, faces closer, saying, "It's not my fault! Why do you try to hurt me?"
I turned to my sister in law and said, "Now there's an ADULT conversation."
I do wonder, though... If we are to someday be a Zion people... and one... I wonder how any of us will last more than ten minutes...
posted
Thanks, Gracie. I'm not offended or feeling picked on. Those are thoughts I've had myself, and I am, especially lately, trying to see my MIL in light of her trials. She's had a tough row to hoe, and I know that when she was raising DH she was a good and loving mom for the most part.
She also has the highest capacity for passive-aggressiveness and outright nastiness of any person I've come across in my life. DH says she wasn't that way so much when she was raising him. He knows she's that way, as does everyone else in the family. If you're one of her current favorites, she'll be sweet as pie, but if you're not, she knows how to hit where it hurts- with a smile on her face.
Yes there's some bitterness in my tone. It's been extremely hard at times. But thank you (sincerely) for your input, and I agree with you. I'm trying to look at her in a more Christlike way, and while I'm not great at it yet, I'm getting better.
I'm a really imperfect mom, but I love my kids and I'm trying to get better. I know that she did HER best while she was raising her kids. I'm genuinely grateful for her part in raising a wonderful, loving son and I've told her so. Most of my problems with her have to do with the here and now; and most people in the family have the exact same struggles with her.
Posts: 4357 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I've always liked this scripture in situations like these, and while it's specifically speaking about priesthood holders, I think it applies to many other situations in LDS families. From D & C 121:
"41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; 42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile— 43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy; 44 That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death.
Posts: 3198 | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I've always liked this scripture in situations like these, and while it's specifically speaking about priesthood holders, I think it applies to many other situations in LDS families. From D & C 121:
"41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; 42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile— 43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy; 44 That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death."
quote:43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost;
Just remember - you don't get to rip anyone a new anything, unless the Holy Ghost tells you to.
I do believe there are times when a sharp word is called for. However, for every valid time, there are around 25,648 times when people just really, really want to be sharp, but it's not called for.
quote: Just remember - you don't get to rip anyone a new anything, unless the Holy Ghost tells you to.
I do believe there are times when a sharp word is called for. However, for every valid time, there are around 25,648 times when people just really, really want to be sharp, but it's not called for.
I agree (with your comment as well as your estimate of the ratio involved). IMO, this scripture is used to justify far more incidents of rebuke than are actually warranted by Inspiration. For heck's sake, I've even seen it used on-line by blog posters who had never even met the person they presumed to rebuke (followed a few posts later, of course, by a sometimes sanctimonious and self-righteous profession of love for the person rebuked).
As Shane mentioned, this scripture appears smack dab in the middle of an explanation of how priesthood leadership is to be conducted in the church (and, presumably in other settings as well). It may be occasionally appropriate to use it outside of that context, but I'm dubious about that absent a truly compelling command from the Spirit.
To me its all about stewardship relationships: a father and mother with their children, a bishop with ward members, a stake president with stake members, or a Prophet with the church membership as a whole. The "rebuke" scripture is about exercising priesthood authority within those stewardships, not a carte blanche invitation to apply correction to all those around us.
It can be a fine line between (1) the Spirit told me to rebuke you, and (2) based on my experience with and knowledge of the Gospel I feel strongly that you should be rebuked.
Seeing as it's very rare that my "Spirit detector" is tuned to that fine of a setting, I find myself sticking to encouragement, counsel, and advice when no stewardship is involved.
Actually, I think it's only happened to me once in my whole life. The "sharp rebuke" simply involved pointing at a picture of Jesus on the wall and saying "You know I'm right, don't you."
Now, I can't offhand remember any of the times I recieved a valid sharp rebuke, but I'm sure I sure deserved more than I've received!
posted
I just wanted to let everyone know who has shared ideas and experiences for me here that I am not angry anymore.
I have truly made this a matter of prayer and contemplation. Everywhere I look there have been little bits and pieces that I believe are from the Spirit telling me what I should concentrate on. Funny how when you tell Heavenly Father to show you the way, everyday things just start popping out at you.
The anger is gone, replaced with nothing but a desire to act in a way that is in harmony with the woman I wish to be. It's no longer about my MIL, it's about the example I wish to set for my husband, my children, and myself.
None of this means that I know how I am supposed to handle this situation with my MIL. It only means that I now feel in my heart the spirit in which I need to do whatever it is that I do.
Posts: 4321 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
My grandma told me about an aunt or some other relative of hers that would purposely leave change laying about so that when grand kids dropped by and took it she could accuse the parents of raising thieves. She never thought about the hypocrisy of her acts.
Now while I have no information to even imply that your MIL is purposely laying a trap, for some reason this story did come to my mind.
By shedding yourself of anger you have completely diffused any possibility that she can accuse you (and therefore your religion) of being false and ingenuine. By being true to God you may even cause a spark to be lit by your example.
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