posted
"Legalizing Same-Sex Marriage Will Increase Prevalence of Homosexuality"
Even if there weren't scientific research, this is just common sense. The more generally acceptable any kind of behavior becomes, & the less social disapproval is attached to it, the more people turn to that behavior. And once it becomes legal, anyone with a modium of moral confusion no longer has to feel conflicted; because it's officially approved, it must be OK.
Even if the behavior is something most people wouldn't be inclined to do (whether by heredity, upbringing, peer influence, or any of the other factors used to explain what "makes" people "the way they are" ), some folks would just do it out of curiosity. And we all know that people who smoke, drink, or take drugs just once out of curiosity often become addicts.
Posts: 12896 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I must have a real problem about homosexual behaviour because no amount of social acceptability would ever persuade me that I should try it.
Posts: 1478 | Registered: Oct 2008
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Having just read the article, I now understand why social acceptance of homosexuality has no effect on me: I live in the countryside. If I lived in a city, I would probably be married to a man called Fred by now.
I would respectfully suggest that those with a fear of the homosexualisation of society move out the countryside quick since the research quoted in the article shows that cities make you gay. Posts: 1478 | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
That's why I mentioned people who suffer from moral confusion.
There are people among us who simply know (the kind of "know" that a testimony represents) that we would not do certain things. Even if everyone around us is drunk, we will not drink. Even if our co-workers take workplace supplies, we won't. Even though same-sex "marriage" is legal where some of us live, we never imagine partaking in homosexual activity or "marrying" a same-sex partner because we know it is unnatural & contrary to God's intentions.
It is the people who haven't formulated a clear sense that it is wrong who will yield to that temptation, just as they would try other harmful or evil things. Curiosity is stronger than a non-existent, half-formed, or weak sense of right or wrong.
One of the sad things about all this is that many who lack that sense are young & immature--people who in the past would have been persuaded by tradition & social pressure to avoid evil habits. Those social constraints gave them a fighting chance to grow up & develop some sense. Now, with the continual calling of evil good, and good, evil, they aren't getting a chance at even a secondhand moral awareness
Posts: 12896 | Registered: Apr 2005
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My children are all grown and all went through the public school system but, I'm pretty sure that If I were doing it over under current political and social circumstances I would very seriously consider home schooling or group schooling with people of like minded values.
Government and special interest groups just simply have way too much power and influence over the education of our children.
posted
As a reminder, as it seems many here think homosexuality is always a casual lifestyle choice, many who are homosexual actually have differences in the brain and in hormonal levels. Many here would find it quite difficult to overcome such temptations to "go with the biology" that pushes you in a certain direction. There is discussion regarding where these differences originate (nature and nurture) but many have developed to be what they are from their birth.
Sure, there are those that have become "oriented" the way they are because they have made a concious lifestyle choices with no biology whatsoever behind it. There are also those who have been raised, as expressed, in an environment that makes such "orientation" acceptable and encouraged. Don't lump every homosexual into these categories, however.
Posts: 5608 | Registered: Sep 2001
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I'm not so sure that we've discovered any actual biological differences between those that have a homosexual orientation. I don't think the homosexual movement wants an actul biological cause to be found, because then you could find a "cure".
Posts: 3499 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I have known several people who had "causual" HS relationships because of social pressures (Navy, Wells College, etc.) but when removed from the environment returned to more conventional relationships. I have known people who seemed to have an inborn predisposition toward HS, but managed to maintain proper relationships with others. And I have known a practicing HS who was convinced it was somthing his mother did to him.
Both sides of this issue tend to oversimplify the issue and reduce it to sound bites, us vs. them accusations and catchy slogans (come to think of it this describes the majority of our political discourse these days). I'd be willing to bet that most HS individuals would prefer for the whole debate to go away and to just be left alone to live their lives.
Posts: 1333 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote: As a reminder, as it seems many here think homosexuality is always a casual lifestyle choice, many who are homosexual actually have differences in the brain and in hormonal levels. Many here would find it quite difficult to overcome such temptations to "go with the biology" that pushes you in a certain direction.
Even if that were proven to be true, it's irrelevant. There is evidence, for instance, that certain people are genetically predisposed towards alcoholism. That doesn't mean that they should give in.
Posts: 1677 | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
I see your point, Arbilad, but I don't think it's a good analogy. As humans develop they don't have a natural desire for alcohol. But the desire for sexual contact is rooted in biology. Potential alcoholics that have never touched alcohol never feel the desire for alcohol. Sexual contact is something that most adults desire even if they've never experienced it.
Posts: 556 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:I'm not so sure that we've discovered any actual biological differences between those that have a homosexual orientation.
I've seen the difference in the brain scans of homosexuals and heterosexuals. This was shown during a Ricks College psychology class.
I believe no challenge is put before us that we cannot overcome. I do not envy the challenge of of being attracted to the same sex which is something I believe many homosexuals had no choice in.
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posted
The question is: what comes first? The chicken or the egg? Did the brain differences cause the desires? Or did the behavior cause brain changes? Just because someone doesn't choose to be gay, does not mean that it is genetic.
quote:Twin study investigations of homosexuality were recently conducted in both Sweden and Finland. Such twin studies compare rates of homosexual behavior between different sibling groups who share varying degrees of genetic similarity (i.e., identical twins versus non-identical twins). By comparing such rates, twin studies help sort out the extent to which homosexual behavior is genetic and/or environmental. For instance, if homosexuality is genetic, then in cases where one identical twin is homosexual the co-twin should be homosexual nearly 100% of the time because identical twins share 100% of their genes.
But that is not what these two large-scale Scandinavian studies found. Both studies revealed that when one identical twin was homosexual the other twin was homosexual only 10% or 11% of the time. Such findings indicate that homosexuality is not genetically determined.
Instead of genetic factors, these Scandinavian studies concluded that unique environmental factors play the largest role in the development of homosexual behavior. ...
But first, it should be noted that although the Swedish and Finnish twin studies are among the best to date, they still have wide margins of error. In fact, the margins of error are so wide it remains entirely possible that genetic factors play no role in the development of homosexuality. That remains to be determined, but what has been resolved is that the primary factor in the development of homosexuality is environmental.
posted
I haven't read the studies but I have a question. Assuming that something isn't genetically based, does that mean it has to be environmentally based?
Posts: 556 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote: I see your point, Arbilad, but I don't think it's a good analogy. As humans develop they don't have a natural desire for alcohol. But the desire for sexual contact is rooted in biology. Potential alcoholics that have never touched alcohol never feel the desire for alcohol. Sexual contact is something that most adults desire even if they've never experienced it.
There are actually those who say that a drive for inebriation (or an "altered state") is a basic human drive, and both alcohol and religious devotion are responses to it, but that's neither here nor there.
Alcoholism work as an analogy in that it's a pre-existing propensity toward a certain behavior -- a propensity which does not, however, remove from the individual the onus of conscious control over that behavior.
Is anger a better analogy? Fear of heights? Or are we limited to other paraphilia?
Posts: 1472 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote: Is anger a better analogy? Fear of heights? Or are we limited to other paraphilia?
Eating. We all need to eat. However, some are genetically predisposed to need less. The genetics of how your body handles food does not alter the responsibility to be healthy.
posted
If I remember correctly, those brain scans were done on homosexual men who had died of aids. It is not remarkable in any way that that horrible disease would have caused a difference in their brains. Note that I am not denying the possibility of a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality. But whether it exists or not I have yet to see proven. And I doubt that it will be proven, because the GLBT crowd is afraid that some parents would then do selective abortions if they found out that their baby was going to be gay. As far as my analogy, it is as close as I can come. And yes, we are wired to have a strong desire for intimacy and sex. But it is entirely possible to be celibate your entire life without adverse physiological effects. Which is why I don't like the food analogy; if you go without food you die. If you go without sex you're perhaps unhappy.
Posts: 1677 | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:A group of 90 healthy gay and heterosexual adults, men and women, were scanned by the Karolinska Institute scientists to measure the volume of both sides, or hemispheres, of their brain.
I think the criticism was that the study was so small.
posted
If I remember correctly, the genetic predisposition for alcoholism is, in more general terms, in reality a genetic predisposition for addiction.
Alcohol might be the addiction of choice, but there are other choices as well. Gambling, tobacco, drugs, food, exercise, games, sex, TV, etc. Some are less destructive than alcohol per se--and some include positive benefits--however, an addiction in and of itself can be very destructive.
So I don't have a problem with Arbilad's analogy at all.
Posts: 3396 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
PF, if it were only that simple. It takes two to tango. Most women in these parts are not really interested in marriage or dating for that matter.
As time goes by, I realize I probably may never marry in this lifetime. How ironic actually. All my siblings who are not members of the Church are all married with kids, but the one who believes in principle of eternal marriage and eternal families, will not have that opportunity in this life.
Posts: 2308 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Mertz, I think PF was just agreeing that having sex has the potential to make one happier than they otherwise would have been. And because Mattai is a nice, obedient, Mormon boy, he would have gotten married before "getting happier."
FWIW, yours was a bit of a "grumpy" response (but I'm not implying anything by that completely unrelated observation).
quote: In an interview with TMZ, deposed Miss California Carrie Prejean said that she was "shocked" at the news she had been stripped of her crown and fired back at pageant owner Donald Trump and the pageant producers. Prejean, who was fired by Trump for failing to get clearance for extracurricular activities, claims in response that pageant head Keith Lewis actually encouraged her to pose for Playboy magazine and appear in the reality series "I'm a Celebrity ... Get Me Out of Here!"
posted
The articles I read said that she had been retained despite the photos-- it was an issue of her not honoring her contract. Of course, I have no clue who is telling the truth since she denies that.
Posts: 8155 | Registered: Aug 2004
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"I'd be willing to bet that most HS individuals would prefer for the whole debate to go away and to just be left alone to live their lives. "
I have no doubt they'd like to be left alone to live their lives, & I'm more than happy with this. Many of my neighbors are SS couples, & I get along with them in the same way as I do with the boy-girl couples. Their personal relationships are not my business; they just happen to be my my neighbors Steve & Don instead of Steve & Donna.
The problem with this is that the radical "gay rights" advocates have made this more than a case of "live & let live." They are not satisfied to be left alone, & they will not leave me alone. They want to compel me to accept & approve their lifestyle & validate it by considering them "married." By demanding that the world accept their definition of marriage & abandon the definition that has served human civilization for thousands of years, they have stepped beyond the boundaries of "leave me alone, let me live my life in peace."
I got a letter from the legal defense committee for Prop. 8 for additional funds for a sustained battle over this matter. When my next money comes, I'm going to send them a donation.
Posts: 12896 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Here's news about a new petition to Church leaders from folks who want the Church to quit persecuting gays & lay off the same-sex "marriage" issue.
The KSL story has a link to their website that anyone can follow, but AFAIC it is not consistent with the Nauvoo charter to put it here because they are publicly opposing the teachings of the Church & the Prophets.
The Prophet Joseph Smith:
quote:It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives.”
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