posted
I will admit that I am at a bit of a low point but still, I am pretty sure that if I have to go to one more meeting my head will fall right off.
Tonight is the stake meeting to arrange my daughter's baptism. This is number 5. There has never been anything at any of the previous 4 baptism previews that could not have been put on a 1/2 sheet handout. Why this has to be a meeting, I do not understand.
In our ward, we are now asked to sign up to clean the church 3 times a year. OK. I signed up. But wait! Someone figured out that we were just coming to the church scrubbing the toilets and leaving. We can't have that. The new stake directive is all 6 families coordinate one time to come (piece of cake) so that we can have an opening exercise. We need to have a prayer, a scripture, and some thoughts on the consecrated nature of the work we are doing. I cannot face toilet scrubbing meeting. Any sincere prayer I offered would surely being taken as a scandal. "And please help that everyone remembers to flush..."
Why do we insist on doubling the time that every thing takes by making it a meeting? Can't we just do it? I know to bring an extra pair of underwear for my daughter's baptism. Does it really help anything for me to hear it with a primary song and some lady talking to us in a singsong voice for an hour?
It's wearing me out.
Posts: 7932 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I can make a suggestion that might seem out there, but it's worked for us for years.
Don't go to the meetings. You don't have to explain why, just don't go.
For the baptism meeting, just ask someone to let you know what they all decide. Feel free to ask via email 5 minutes before the meeting is starting, or even after the meeting.
Show up to clean, clean, then go home. Even if you hear singing from the other room or whatever. If someone makes an issue about it, then you tell them. If they try to turn it into a bigger issue, sit back and make neutral observations about how they react to answers to questions they asked. "That's an interesting reaction - I never would have guessed that this would be something to go to the Bishop over. Let me know how that goes". Do that enough times, and they'll leave you alone and stop inviting you.
See value in meetings? Go. Don't see value? Don't go.
posted
Do you have the cleaning meetings in the bathroom? Which stall do ya'll pray in? I bet the accoustics are great in the bathrooms.
Oh! You can play one of my favorite games! Name the hymn and then add "in the bathroom" after it. "Now Let Us Rejoice" in the bathroom!
Oh my, EDG. I think I'd go with LM's suggestions. I'd just not go to the meetings. Show up to clean, smile while I'm scrubbing, and then leave.
Posts: 3145 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
OK EDG. Just be glad that I wasn't chewing my dinner!! I lauged so much in reading your quote~
Seriously I feel for you and the idea of a whole devotional just for cleaning. Perhaps you can suggest that those families WHO WISH to do so may have their own private devotional. If I were in your boat, I'd just be sure to arrive after said devotional is over. Hope that policy goes the way of the expectation of overvisiting the elderly that your area had at Christmas time!
About the baptism meeting, no ideas, it seems that could just be coordinated over the phone. Do you think they want the meeting so all parents have equal input? (ie if more than one child is being baptized?)
Good luck!
quote:The new stake directive is all 6 families coordinate one time to come (piece of cake) so that we can have an opening exercise. We need to have a prayer, a scripture, and some thoughts on the consecrated nature of the work we are doing. I cannot face toilet scrubbing meeting. Any sincere prayer I offered would surely being taken as a scandal. "And please help that everyone remembers to flush..."
posted
Along the lines of the earlier posts, maybe you can make up songs:
"Clean, Clean Ye Saints, no dirt no mess to fear, All will smell awfully well"
Ok never mind but maybe you can come up w/some good lines!
PS- out of curiousity, how big is your building?
6 families seems like a lot!
How many wards meet in it?? Ours has 3 wards and so we rotate monthly. Usually 2-3 families sign up each week..but not 6! Usually just takes a couple hours.
posted
Maybe the cleaning meeting is meant to replace the old people visits everyone was supposed to make at Christmastime.
Posts: 5982 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
"...we can have an opening exercise. We need to have a prayer, a scripture, and some thoughts on the consecrated nature of the work we are doing. I cannot face toilet scrubbing meeting"
Opening: "We pray for these brushes & these sponges, that the work they do may be pleasing to Thee & do these toilets the good that they need."
For scripture: Psalm 24:3-4.
Closing: "We pray that our bowels might be filled with mercy & charity, & that we might find the plumber's friend where we expected it the next time we need it." Posts: 12828 | Registered: Apr 2005
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The most outrageous church meeting I ever went to was an "orientation" for people interested in being temple veil workers. They had several speakers who talked about the importance of temple work. For an hour. Now, temple work is really important and all, but I'm sure everyone at this meeting already knew that. I had driven an hour to the stake center on a Sunday evening before dinner to attend the meeting. They called it an "orientation," but at no point during the meeting did they "orient" us about what might be involved in being a veil worker.
Finally, they had us move to the high council room where they talked some more. And then some more. Still nothing that could be called an orientation. It was about the most DISorienting meeting I've been to. I had come hoping to learn what was involved in the calling, but all I had heard was just stuff about the temple in general. I was starting to get hungry by now, and still facing an hour's drive home, if the meeting would ever end. Then they decided that instead of having us set apart two or three at a time in separate rooms, they wanted us to all stay together and do it one at a time. "So that we would know that each person had a different blessing during the setting apart." Gosh, I would have taken their word for it. And really, I wouldn't have cared if someone else had gotten the same blessing I did. Really. Then they had us wait outside to talk one at a time with a member of the temple presidency about when we would be able to serve. All this time, my son was waiting (patiently, for the first hour and a half) in the foyer because I couldn't leave him home (my wife being out of town). For each person, it worked out to about five minutes of actual orientation, five minutes of setting apart, almost two hours of fluff, and (for some of us) two hours of travel. We finished about nine o'clock and then my son and I went to eat at McDonald's. Sabbath or no sabbath, I wasn't going to wait another hour (not counting meal preparation time) to eat at home.
It's the same sort of thinking that gives us toilet-scrubbing devotionals. The people who plan the meeting imagine that their meeting is so super-spiritually inspirational that everyone (especially those with two hours of travel) will be thrilled that it just goes on and on. Never mind mundane things like feeding your family.
posted
to the prayer Curelom mentionned you could add:
"like the rolls of toilet paper that we will check, may our lives be long and useful"
{adapted from a quote someone put in my year book once "like a roll of toilet paper, may your life be long and useful "- not sure where they got it from!}
Posts: 8577 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
We clean (the four of us)once a month like clockwork. Just us, alone, Friday night ( big date) then we all go out for a sundae at Mcd.
Never even considered it a matter of prayer, devotional or what have you. ( should we???) It is cleaning the building so that everyone has a nice place to worship Sunday. It is our family's service. We get in there and get down to it and leave. Maybe a prayer would mitigate some uncharitable feelings I have about people who let their kids eat all over the chapel. hmmmm
I think it is a little nutty to add music and scriptures to the mix. I mean really...???????
Posts: 5469 | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
I'd take a big pass ( umm-you must have important family business, right) on that baptism meeting as well. If you were a first time thru particiapnt then I can see it, but after five times, you know your way to the font.
What happened to streamlining meetings so people have time for their families?
Posts: 5469 | Registered: Jun 2002
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I think if you have to have a baptismal meeting you should ask to have your daughter's at a special time, separate from everyone else.
Posts: 8601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:See value in meetings? Go. Don't see value? Don't go.
Oh. Just burn the heretic now.
Sounds like a great idea, though. That's kind of why I don't go to roundtable any more, except to get the camp fliers for the first five minutes.
Posts: 8601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I happen to be the building-cleaning coordinator.
I try to get the members of about 1-2 households each week to come help clean. I tell them they can come in anytime during the week that is convenient for them. If they wish, the families assigned that week can all come at once, or they can each come on different days, and coordinate to avoid duplicating tasks.
Regardless of how many people show up, they can work for 1 to 1.5 hours doing whatever they think most needs to be done. They check off on a list what they did, and anything left undone will just be taken care of next week. Or the week after. The world will not end if the primary room doesn't get vacuumed for a couple weeks, and thank you all very much for your service.
I had never thought of having a church-cleaning devotional, but I suppose if they think it's important, each family can do whatever they want on their own time.
Posts: 946 | Registered: Jun 2002
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See The Mighty Priesthood Gathered, in the bathroom.
There Is Beauty All Around, in the bathroom.
Be Still, My Soul, in the bathroom.
OK, I never would have guessed how fun this could be.
What Glorious Scenes Mine Eyes Behold, in the bathroom?
You can make the bathroom bright?
The Happy Day At Last Has Come, in the bathroom?
Sing We Now At Parting, in the bathroom?
The Time Is Far Spent, in the bathroom?
OK, I'm done. But I still wonder that it takes 6 families to clean the church. It must be a big one. We do it with 2 families, so we only get the chance once a year. And yeah, sometimes they come and only scrub the toilets and leave, or only vacuum and dump the garbages and leave. But that's one of the nice things about the Plan of Salvation. It teaches us that this life is not meant to be fair. Only at the final judgment will things be evened out. So as long as I do my job and the church building doesn't fall apart, I don't have to make sure other people do things the way I think they should be done. If they are slackers and don't mop the gym, they'll get their just reward in heaven, and God will be the one that does the rewarding. Not me.
As I recall, we did have a prayer last time, but that's the first time we've ever done that. I think it was nice, but not mandatory, and we certainly didn't have opening exercises. But you know what, there are those personality types that thrive on having a devotional when they go to clean the church. That's part of being in a church organization. Sometimes you do service, however inconvenient, so other members get their needs met. With 6 families there, the chances of getting at least some people who will get warm fuzzies from the devotional is pretty high I think. It should only take a minute. Then my boys would be singing "Clean, clean, ye Saints" songs and making up sacrilegious lyrics the rest of the morning. And there are a LOT of (in)appropriate scriptures they could use. That Psalms one Curelom brought up comes to mind right away, or any of the many that tell us that no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The pendulum has swung the other way in my ward. They even don't like us doing home teaching on Sunday. Maybe your ward will swing soon. (Cross Fingers)
My part of the program was to explain about the bishop's interview. So, I took the oldest child there and sat him in a chair opposite of me and said, basically, "this is how it is going to go." And I started off with "There are 5 questions I'm going to ask you and one of them has 3 parts. So, it is like 8 questions. The first one is do you have a testimony of Heavenly Father and Jesus?" All the kids said "Yes." Then I said, "The second question is do you have a testimony of Joseph Smith and the whole story about the gold plates." All the kids said "yes."
About this time a girl in the front row raised her hand and said, "now wait a minute bishop. So, the answer to the first two questions is 'yes?' Can I borrow some paper from someone?"
It brought down the whole house.
It also give me an opportunity to tell the parents some things they need to be talking about with their children before the interview. For example the third question is about repentance. Well, 8 year-olds usually don't know very much about repentance. So, I suggest it might make a good family home evening topic for a couple of weeks.
The Primary Presidency give all the children a little book to write memories in, and all the instructions about whom to call for clothing and such. Those that aren't there get this booklet so probably don't need to attend. They also give them a pair of white socks with a little poem about how they are the first thing to enter the water.
And we all have root beer floats.
I don't think it is really an "official handbook meeting." But for me, it is a lot of fun.
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"Be Thou Humble" in the bathroom (nothing like some time on the throne to humble a soul).
"We Are Sowing" in the bathroom...and watering too.
"God Be With You 'Til We Meet Again"...in the bathroom, of course. And until then, may you have "Peace Like a River" & may all your troubles come out OK in the end.
Posts: 12828 | Registered: Apr 2005
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We have 6 families come on both Tuesday and Saturday though some of the families consist of one person. We have 3 wards so our ward takes care of it every third month. In the cleaning closet are laminated cards for each room and the things to do in each. It takes about an hour if everyone comes.
I wouldn't be happy with a meeting. The way it is set up we don't all have to be there at the exact same time. We just pull out a card or two to do and do it. That way we can even arrive a little early or late.
Posts: 4947 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I think we are seeing another bit of local initiative producing an entirely inappropriate result. When we start turning toilet cleaning into a devotional, it does make me wonder if we are observing forms rather than actual being spiritual. Still, the Stake is presumably more clued into the will of the Lord than I am, so obviously you need to start with a word of prayer and an appropriate scripture. Avoid the references in Kings to the poor Philistines and their emerods.
Posts: 1463 | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
PF's response has brought joy to my day! A bishop with love in his heart and good sense!
I don't do assigned cleaning because just about every Sunday I do "pick up" cleaning. A bathroom counter needs wiped, I do it. Trash needs picking up, I do it. Child licks windows in foyer, I find the rags and spray. (that last due to one of our children with Aspurger(sp)Syndrome) I always make sure my part of the Primary room is clean on Activity Day nights. Our youth also empty the trash cans each activity night. V.
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Reminds me how glad I am that I live in practical land. Meetings about meetings. Oh my gosh.
I'm afraid I'd go all Monty Python if I had to deliver some sort of message at a pre-cleaning meeting.
When son was baptized, I asked the bishop (in the hall) if we could have him baptized out of state (and told him my good reason). The Bishop interviewed my son (no pre-interview). Then the Bishop had the clerk get the paper work together.
My dad arranged the building scheduling and font details at his end.
We got to the church a few minutes before the scheduled start, the local bishops counselor looked at our paper work. We had the baptism. The counselor signed the papers.
We came back, gave the paper work to the clerk, he gave us the certificate and we were done.
I'm hoping daughter will be just as easy.
And LW, I admire your patience, not sure what I would have done. But, I would have been distinctly not in touch with the spirit before the end of all that.
Posts: 10865 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Hey, is there any way we can more publicly mock this idea about cleaning devotionals, so that by the time the idea migrates here it will be recognized as stupid as it sounds and thus not be adopted?
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2003
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I have participated in cleaning our church building twice.
The first time, my younger daughter and husband (from whom I am separated) participated. The second time, it was just my husband and me. The other family that was supposed to be there didn't show.
I am not a cleaner. It is one of the things I hate to do. My house is a disaster. So I don't feel adequate about cleaning the church, even with the checklist. I don't know what chemicals are supposed to be used where - at home I use multipurpose cleaning wipes and a swiffer, when I clean (which is not regularly or often enough). I was even thinking about bringing the wipes to use at church the next time I was required to clean.
But, at least we don't have a cleaning devotional.
And on the subject of baptism meetings: We don't have stake baptisms. Our stake is far-flung enough that we have baptisms in our own wards. But I would have welcomed some guidance in planning my daughters' baptisms, especially the older one. I ended up washing all the towels in our house because I thought at the last minute about the path between the font and the bathrooms, not realizing we could have asked a ward member to provide rugs - he had them for his business. It was worse because that day was the day the contractor hired by our landlord came to rip up our kitchen floor to put in a new one. He was supposed to have come a couple weeks before that. And he had to move the washer and dryer, so I was washing towels at the laundromat, and also baking cookies in a kitchen with no floor. Fun times. Anyway, a checklist would have been handy.
Posts: 839 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:The new stake directive is all 6 families coordinate one time to come (piece of cake) so that we can have an opening exercise. We need to have a prayer, a scripture, and some thoughts on the consecrated nature of the work we are doing.
Wow. Just...wow.
You could write that up as a humor piece and post it on Facebook, but no one would believe it.
Posts: 1451 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
BTW, we fixed the potty meeting dilemma. Two of my friends and I signed up for the same shifts. Then we proposed to 3 older couples/singles that they could sign up for those shifts and we would be happy to cover them since we all have loads of kids/help. They took the bait. That gets us to 6. We divided up the work and will each being covering our part at our leisure sans song and prayer.
Posts: 7932 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Do what is right; the toilet needs snaking, Hailing a future free from it's dirty plite. Angels above us are silent notes taking Of every meeting, that goes long into night!
Do what is right, let the consequence follow. Battle for no meetings in bathrooms which are tight; And with a scrubber look ye forth for tomorrow. Masks may protect you; no devotionals in sight.
Posts: 4947 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
The bad thing is, ya'll are making me want to have the meeting so I can poach some of these sweet lines.
Posts: 7932 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I'm still laughing about "I need thee every hour in the bathroom". What are you doing in the bathroom every hour? And "While Shepherds watched their flocks in the bathroom" ... Posts: 5841 | Registered: Sep 2005
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