posted
It seems to me that the Elders who are part of the young men programs have nothing to do with Elder's quorum activities, even though we've included them in the announcements. The elders who work in the primary, same deal. They're all no-shows. In fact, we once planned a special meeting for all the priesthood to discuss hometeaching... we got substitutes for Primary so that the elders in primary and aaronic priesthood could attend. Guess what they did? They all went home. How do you get these Elders to come to activities that involve the Elder's Quorum?
posted
You don't. They will come or not according to thier own faithfulness. It doesn't matter if they are in Primary or some other assignment or not. It comes down to faithfulness.
Posts: 1996 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Sounds like a ward problem that I can't relate to. Every time I've been in primary or YM I've pretty much had little or no contact from the Elder's Quorum except when they're passing out new HT lists. I can't say I would ditch if the YM were taken care of and I knew there was a Elder's Quorum meeting as the reason even if it was for a HT "discussion".
Instead of having a home teaching discussion, you take them out shooting poor innocent critters. Works every time. And you might even talk about spiritual stuff while you're at it.
Posts: 5047 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
The monthly PPI is grossly underused. This is where the EQP gets to know each brother on a personal level. It is not just a time to ask about their home teaching and the families they are assigned, but an opportunity to minister to each brother and to reach out to them.
I remember interviews with my Mission President. I walked out of each of those knowing that he cared deeply for me as an individual. Sure he asked the usual questions about getting along with my companion or how I was doing as a missionary, but I honestly felt like I was sitting with a righteous man who showed love like the Savior but with the same familiarity as my grandpa.
Monthly visits are often another area that is lacking. These brethren you mentioned should be at the top of the list for a visit in their home by the EQP. We often think of visiting the less active and those who never come. But truthfully, there is probably 30-40% of Elders who attend each week, but are spiritually teetering on the edge of inactivity. They are not safely in the Lords camp just yet. They may just be there because their wife dragged them there, or family expectations, nothing more.
The EQP are ministers and need rise to the challenge.
posted
don't know about the men in Primary, but I could easily see that those serving in YM are so much away from home that wives aren't so eager to let the go to another activity - or they have no interest because they already spend so much time in church activities. So unless they really are interested in the topic/ what's happening, I would not be surprised at all that they don't come.
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posted
Elders who are in the YM program spend a lot of time serving the youth, and often don't have the time or energy to support additional activities with the EQ.
Primary is extremely isolating, and more often than not the marginally active get shuffled there as a way to get them to church.
I've skipped nearly all of our EQ activities, largely because the activities planned haven't particularly interested my wife or me. So we've usually just spent time together doing what we enjoy.
Heck, we end up skiping most of the Ward activities as well. The only time we ever really go these days is when we have been given a direct assignments to support it, and even then we go begrudgingly (I'm looking at you stupid Halloween carnival).
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Guys, it sounds like ray's activity that he wanted the Elders to come to was during the regular 3 hour block of church meetings. Not attending meant they ditched church an hour early.
I've been in wards that did this at least yearly with the Relief Society, it's nice to hear that this ward tried to do with for the Elders. As to how to get the guys to come, did you offer refreshments?
Posts: 2959 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Or it might have been a walk-out protest regarding the EQ dissing their God-given callings. (At least that's how I've always felt about being made to leave where God called me in Primary to attend a dumb--and they are invariably dumb--VT seminar during church hours... I just never had the guts to stage a walk-out. I like it.)
That said, it's refreshing to have the EQ even remember that there are guys in Primary. Mormon Yoda nailed it (hey, look! I'm agreeing with Mormon Yoda!) this is the kind of thing that belongs in PPI, and is best conveyed with a personal relationship. Dragging people from where they've been called to serve, during the very time they've been called to do it, so they can sit in a large anonymous group of people to hear what they've heard before does not say "We love you."
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
One more thought... you say that those brethren don't come out to "activities". What activities (rather than interrupting their service in Primary or Young Men for your presidency's convenience) have you planned. Are they ones that, over time, satisfy a variety of interests? Do you count which brethren show up for service projects and cannery assignments as having participated in the "quorum"? Chances are, these guys are participating, but not in basketball or paintball or whatever (from my husband's point of view, for example, these are NOT fun activities, don't promote conversations or getting to know each other, etc. Now, weeding the beans, or helping with an Eagle project or cleaning the chapel together, or fixing somebody's car... those are much more fun.)
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posted
Tendril; then how do you suggest leaders discuss topics that are important to the ward as a whole? Like it or not, it is through the work of VT/HT that the needs of the members of the ward are to be met...the burden is too great for the leadership alone.
What about concerns the Bishop has that he wants to address a a group?
Posts: 4280 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Talitha, if it is something important to the ward as a whole, wouldn't Sacrament Meeting be the place for that? Otherwise, things can be discussed directly with the individuals involved.
I absolutely agree that VT/HT is the way that the needs of ward members are met. But large anonymous meetings are not conducive to accomplishing that goal. That is why there are smaller councils including PPI and Visiting Teaching interviews, plus personal communication between leaders and individual VT/HTs. I cannot conceive of any message so important and cannot be effectively and efficiently communicated in any other way as to trump consistency and predictability in the experience of Primary Children.
PS I freely admit that the dragging people out of Primary to go to RS is a humongous pet peeve of mine. I am also told that I am about the only person that feels that way. Most people like to escape Primary. I currently am not serving in Primary but would love to be called back. It might be lonely, but spiritually it is easier on the soul.
posted
Where does it say that someone isn't faithful if they don't show up to EQ activities. And there are men in primary precisely because they can't stand what goes on in priesthood (whether that is pride or something else). And unless the EQP has visited with the missing men individually, how can they know what those men and their families need.
Posts: 2179 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Sorry, I should have clarified: How does the Bishop do that when he has things he needs to talk to the ward ADULTS about?
My point is that sometimes there are things that need to be addressed and the best way to reach the most people is on Sunday. If you can't or don't want to talk about it with the kids there, it leaves 3rd hour.
By the way, I don't think VT conferences should be held on Sundays during church block...however, I understand the RS president who is desperate to get the most sisters there that she can.
Posts: 4280 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I'm in young mens, and before that I was in Primary. I spent about one year going to EQ. I'd rather not go to Elder's Quorum, mostly because everyone sits there like a lump. I wonder how they get any comments during the lessons at all, now that I am gone. Maybe I was sucking up all the oxygen before I left, and they're doing much better now. Who knows?
I usually don't go to EQ activities because I don't like things that other men like, and I don't like being around couples being as a single person. Sometimes I force myself to go, though.
I would be annoyed to be pulled away from the Aaronic priesthood to have a home teaching meeting for two reasons:
1. I much prefer the company of youth. 2. I do my hometeaching, and I do a very good job, so, yawnfest.
But, if they wanted the entire ward to attend the meeting, and arranged substitutes, I would definitely go. I can always improve my hometeaching.
Posts: 8601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Sorry, I should have clarified: How does the Bishop do that when he has things he needs to talk to the ward ADULTS about?
My point is that sometimes there are things that need to be addressed and the best way to reach the most people is on Sunday. If you can't or don't want to talk about it with the kids there, it leaves 3rd hour.
My primary president was just told yesterday that our Bishop has something on the books for the 5th Sunday joint RS/PH lesson and wants us to consolidate our Primary classes so as many Primary teachers as possible can attend, and specifically to split up husband-wife teams, put a sub in if needed so one spouse can attend. This is not normal for 5th Sunday, as far as I can gather (I'm new to my calling). So we're looking at doing a mass sharing time 3rd hour to have the kids make cards for inactive/ill members of our ward. Normally we have our primary split because of the number of kids.
quote:But, if they wanted the entire ward to attend the meeting, and arranged substitutes, I would definitely go. I can always improve my hometeaching.
And here's my concern. How do you get the entire ward to attend a meeting when you need subs for the youth, primary and nursery?
posted
Goody: in our ward, we have the youth do it.
The Bishop lets me and the YM president know what week he needs us, and the Primary president gives us assignments. Since I've been in this calling, we've done it twice, with good results. It would depend on how many youth you had in your ward, however. We have over 65 active.
Posts: 4280 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Tendril: Actually meetings in which the whole quorum meet for HT discussions, actually do have a decent impact on the numbers. At least in our ward, they're one way to help. We do PPIs. We have about as much success getting them to show up to those meetings as we do for one in which we've arranged for them to have a substitute, during the EQ hour.
I'm disappointed, perhaps impatient or have unrealistic opinions about human nature, but these meetings do make a difference.
I find that those who attend the meetings are the same who are willing to go to PPIs.
quote: Goody: in our ward, we have the youth do it.
I wouldn't let most of the youth in my ward hold my unopened Diet Coke. I am not leaving them with my children.
Posts: 7932 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Hahahaha. I hear you. Again, I suppose it depends on the dynamics of your ward. The youth leaders do split up and make sure that all is well.
It's not for everyone...but it sure has become a good experience for the youth and children in our ward. Many of them haven't got younger siblings, so it's a neat opportunity to get to know the kids. And for me, every time I sub as Primary President, it strengthens my testimony that if I ever were to be called there for reals, it would be evidence that our Bishop no longer has the Spirit of revelation. Posts: 4280 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
We've started doing PPI's in between the meetings. I am one of those that never voluntarily went to a PPI. But this new plan of squeezing them in during church is working great. I'm trying to follow the advice of PF with PPI's. We encourage the partnership to set attainable goals, like for instance for the next quarter they will visit at least one family each month. (Assuming they've been doing less than that recently).
Personally, my least favorite EQ meeting is the one that is only about home teaching. Seems like most of them are nothing but motivation by guilt. I do like the ones where people are simply testifying of positive outcomes from home teaching.
If a person feels they're at their limit with church related stuff, preparing lessons, visiting/helping people, taking their kids to activities. They are not going to be receptive another "chore." In fact I think I'll add that question to our PPI interview form.
There's pushing people to be better, and there's pushing people over the edge. Important to not do the later because that only increases rebellion and inactivity, even in the best of people.
Posts: 10865 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote: There's pushing people to be better, and there's pushing people over the edge. Important to not do the later because that only increases rebellion and inactivity, even in the best of people.
And that is the crux of that matter. There just isn't enough love in us to do these things without the guilt, reminders and nagging. We don't carry the Saviors love with us. I'm as guilty as anyone.
Posts: 506 | Registered: Aug 2010
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posted
For us, the meetings work because of the high turnover in our ward. Honestly, about half the ward wasn't been in this ward a year or two ago, so a lot of people just don't know one another. During the HT gathering, we invite all the priesthood to attend, including the Aaronic priesthood. We have a couple messages, we hand out the latest assignments and we help each partnership meet their partners, and if they're there, the families they visit.
We use it as an icebreaker activity. Sadly, some go home right after Sacrament meeting, while others would only come if they had a calling to fulfill... otherwise they stay home.
Sometimes I don't understand that... ever since my mission in Italy, I attended church not just for what I got out of it--but because I really want to encourage and strengthen those who come. Those other members who attended made me look like a spiritual pansy. I never knew such great faith--to be one in a million people who traveled upwards of two hours to get to a church meeting, riding busses, and trains, or walking. And we celebrated being together. Just one member brought so much... imagine what a handful did! I recognize what a great blessing and act of faith it is simply to come to church. I sometimes get kinda frustrated at elders who've at one time served missions, but seem indifferent about whether their attendance makes a difference at church. Just seeing each other has such a positive spirit to me. I just wish more people felt that way.
quote: I sometimes get kinda frustrated at elders who've at one time served missions, but seem indifferent about whether their attendance makes a difference at church.
Ray, that's because many of us don't feel like we make much of a difference at church. We're not part of the "usual 10", we aren't BYU fans, and spend most of the time helping out in primary.
Don't get me wrong, generaly enjoy primary. I'd rather help out in primary that sit through a snoozer EQ lesson. Heck, just a few months ago a bunch of the kids said I gave the best sharing time presentation ever. (hmmm... we need a "pat self on back" graemlin).
Anyway, IMHO, EQ meeting is a complete waste of time about 90% of the time, but I know that there are those that get a lot out of it.
A ciascuno i suoi.
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I have to admit - as a Church we need to make a decision, let people do their callings or support EQ. Once I got pulled out of Primary for a lesson on how we should do our callings.... The irony was hilarious.
EQ should be helping others and working towards the welfare of the ward. Another thing is that we are all Elders in there do we really need to discuss the basics of Charity, should we be moving on to Charity 301, leave Charity 201 for Sunday school and Charity 101 for gospel doctorine lessons.
posted
I don't think it is an either or kind of thing. Pulling someone from their calling for one week really isn't much. If it's only once during the year that is only 2% of the Sundays. And if that helps you to do your calling better then it's really nothing.
On Mother's Day the youth teach the primary classes. The only problem I had this year was when my youngest son acted up when my oldest son was teaching him, even after warning him that he had to behave. The youth in my ward are pretty good. I might feel differently about the idea if it were one other ward in our stake.
Posts: 4947 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Ray, that's because many of us don't feel like we make much of a difference at church. We're not part of the "usual 10", we aren't BYU fans, and spend most of the time helping out in primary.
Oh, I can't tell you how much Elders are needed in the Primary. I wish there were more active elders available in our ward who didn't have elders quorum or ward clerk or Sunday School teaching callings, who could serve in the Primary. If you are "helping out in primary", don't ever, ever feel you "don't make much of a difference at church".
That being said, it does hurt a little to hear that 90% of EQ meetings are a complete waste of time. My husband is our EQ president and he tries so hard to get the other elders involved, and have good lessons with good teachers, in addition to all the other myriad things an EQ president has to do. It's overwhelming, and I know he's discouraged when the foyer class is better attended than the EQ meeting. He cannot lead, teach, or help the quorum if they don't participate in it.
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posted
JennaDean, I am conflicted about working in the Primary. In the past I have enjoyed doing it, but have wondered what I would do if I was called again. Since it requires two men to fill the same role that one woman can do (given the recent policy change) it seems dumb to have men do it.
And honestly, it still bothers me a bit that they require two men.
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quote: And honestly, it still bothers me a bit that they require two men.
You can blame the laywers and a few sexual predators for this policy, which is 100% "cover your butt" motivated.
No offence to any hardworking EQ presidents out there. Heck, I've served in 3 separate EQ presidencies, so I know it is a challanging job. Most men haven't a clue how to teach effectively and those that do are usually called to YM or Primary. Also, with activities, you will never be able to come up with an activity that will work for everybody, so offer up a wide variety of activities and be glad if you get 50% attendence. As for HT, well, yeah. The whole program pretty much is set up for failure, so I don't think it is worth any EQP stressing too much over either.
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I went to EQ meeting recently for the first time this year on Mother's day cause 1) it was combined with HP meeting and 2)I had a HP visitor, so I couldn't skip out. Our meeting schedule is right during Jr's nap time so most often the kid is out cold in my arms or on the bench and so I find a quiet as possible spot and ensure he naps. Can't say that I missed attending, for so many reasons that have been discussed in other threads.
Don't know what I'll do if/when someone suggests that my young son attend Nursery like all those over 18mths tend to do. Might have to purchase a smartphone or other cool electronic device so I can "multi-task" while not really listening.
Posts: 686 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
After being in the presidency and attending EQ for some time -
1. Elders dont interact many sit there like lumps of clay, I have had more comments from young adults that resent the fct I am not going to give them lollies.
2. The teaching materials are below what a Elder should know, yes the repeated teaching of important doctorine is important. Whats more important is teaching the EQ to apply the doctorine.
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quote: PS I freely admit that the dragging people out of Primary to go to RS is a humongous pet peeve of mine. I am also told that I am about the only person that feels that way. Most people like to escape Primary. I currently am not serving in Primary but would love to be called back. It might be lonely, but spiritually it is easier on the soul.
I could have written that myself. It's a huge peeve of mine too. When they tried this is my ward during the time that I was Primary President, I always protested and refused to go -- except one time when they wanted me to do part of the 5th Sunday/3rd hour presentation and I left my counselors to cover Primary.
We tried the "youth cover Primary for Mother's Day" routine exactly once and I determined never to do that again. Then I learned that the General Primary Presidency had said not to do that anyway. When they asked for all of the women to attend RS for a visiting teaching conference or other special event, I always supported my teachers by making arrangements so they could go if they wanted to. But I always stayed in Primary.
Oh, how I would love to be back in Primary! I loved that calling.Posts: 1330 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I seem to be in a minority here. I have (almost) always enjoyed going to EQ in whichever ward I am in. Generally, I have always found the lessons and conversations there to be of great quality. Up until about 5 months ago, I also taught the 3rd Sunday lessons, so I was able to make a small impact there in the quality of teaching. Prior to that calling I was in the EQP. We always made sure to get lists and announcements to the primary for the members who had callings there and made most announcements in priesthood opening exercises so that there was more time for actual teaching. I know that several of the elders who served in YM or primary expressed gratitude to us for making that effort to include them, whether or not they came to activities. Currently, my wife and I teach the Sunbeams, so now I see things from the other side of the fence. Given the number of active members in our ward, we only teach every other week, so I am able to get to EQ then. Our ward is one of those few that have Sacrament last, so we always have some people running late to Priesthood/RS. I have noticed that there are some families I only see every other week, when the husband/wife have a calling to fill in Primary. While serving in the presidency, the first Sunday lessons that we focused on HT we tried to do role modeling and ask questions about what the members wanted to know about being more effective home teachers. We always took it as a given that they knew they should go. O ntopic of 5th Sundays, sometimes our ward has had all members except Primary meet, sometimes just the adults, but I have actually never had to see what they do for those with Primary callings. I will make an effort to find out, though, since there is such an occasion coming up.
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posted
jlm; I don't have a clue about football, have never really played basketball of my own free will (without being forced to do so) in my life, and I don't own an Xbox. I love serving the Primary and would never consider that being swept under the carpet. Perhaps it's all perception.
Honestly, i think when we adopt attitudes of surrender. I'm nobody, but when I go to church, I see so much need, there's so much potential, and we wander around feeling as if we don't matter--when nothing could be further than the truth.
Posts: 13027 | Registered: Oct 98
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quote: the foyer class is better attended than the EQ meeting
Wow. Either I am married to JennaDean and didn't realise or it's a more general problem than I thought! Normally, we have the members of the presidency, two elders that are too elderly to leave the room, the missionaries and maybe one or two other elders. The rest are elsewhere, though definitely not in Primary. The only men participating in Primary are members of the bishopric on an ad hoc basis.
I know that we have been doing basic doctrine for the past year and a half, but that is what the Brethren have asked of us. We do tend to go to doctrine 301 from the manual's doctrine 101, because that's how the discussions go. I am fortunate that our very small band of brothers are all prepared to talk and we do go in some interesting directions, but just like JennaDean's husband, I do find the lack of participation in the quorum rather depressing: too busy to come to priesthood, to attend activities, to participate in service activities, to do their home teaching or to attend PPIs.
Anyway, I like the idea of getting some PPIs done between lessons since there is less chance of people being permanently otherwise engaged. Mind you, the week that I get a working PPI programme established will inevitably be the week of my release. Posts: 1463 | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
The foyer's popular in my ward too during all hours of church, tell ya the truth. My frustration with the Foyer Forum, is that a lot of the older teens are welcomed to this group and spend most their time there. I dunno, I'd rather they choose the foyer than the parking lot, or the 7-11, or the TV at home. We're all at varying degrees of glory, I suppose. Posts: 13027 | Registered: Oct 98
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quote:Since it requires two men to fill the same role that one woman can do (given the recent policy change) it seems dumb to have men do it.
That policy has frustrated me too. But our biggest challenge is that there aren't enough active men in our ward for two of them to be teaching the same primary class, because they are needed in callings that can't be filled by women. I do not see it as "dumb" to have two men serve together in Primary; I would see that as double the blessing. The children behave differently when there are priesthood holders in the room. Also, they need the opportunity to see priesthood role models, hear that yes, men DO sing, and just see a good example from both sides of the gender aisle.
Two priesthood holders just means two times the example.
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