What I noticed is that once one person looked concerned, others joined in. Thank goodness for the young men that actually responded. They did bring tears to my eyes.
Posts: 5040 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Even if a person doesn't physically want to restrain the guy, at least they could call 9-1-1 or something.
It was kind of hard to understand the girl, though. On a busy street, she could have been some kid being defiant to her dad.
Even with the microphone, it was hard to understand that she's saying "You're not my dad." I don't know how well the bystanders could understand her. The two guys that helped understood what she was saying, though.
Posts: 8601 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Its really sad, but there is fight or flight in everyone. I'm one of those with fight in me. I remember coming across a house fire in progress about a mile from my home and the fire truck had just barely arrived at the same time. There was screaming family members and neighbors helping. My reaction was jump in and help. My best friend chose to stay in the car. I was instrumental in helping feed the fire hose over a fence that otherwise was snagging the hose. I can not understand my friends reaction. I don't understand the disconnect.
Posts: 506 | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yep. Overcoming complacency - it's a big thing for a lot of people. In my CERT class, they showed a video someone took of a club fire. People just stood and watched the flames for a good ten seconds before doing anything. Lots of people died. It wasn't until people were actually getting burned that folks started shouting 'fire'.
Complacency isn't just associated with helping others. Some dojos will do a thing, where they'll have a new face just walk into an advanced martial arts class, and pick someone up and try to walk out with them. Black belt - years of training - lots of money invested - and they sit there giggling nervously and letting themselves get abducted.
When we encounter an immediate call to action like that, most of us have a buffer, a loop in our brains, where we just 'can't believe what we're seeing'. So we sit there or walk away. There are ways to shorten this loop, but it requires a little dedication and practice (or a lot of experience with these instances).
posted
I'm sorry, but 1)child abductions by strangers are rare, and 2) This is how my children act with me in public, it is a great attention getter for them and it helps that we are different races. If I saw this I would do nothing because I would think that someone else has children with behavioral problems (a far, far more common occurance than a child being abducted by a stranger.)
After watching this, this is how I feel: "Great, now even more people will call the cops on me, just what I need."
Posts: 894 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
When interviewed, that is what most of the witnesses said - they assumed it was the case of a child misbehaving. It is a tough question, when or if you should get involved. It's the same question when you see bruising.
posted
I found out our niece used to struggle and yelled "you are not my daddy", at her daddy, in public, as a way to get even for being told 'no' about something.
Yeah, it happens. But again - just because it happens, doesn't mean you assume that's what's happening.
Afried, I feel for your situation. It's a good reminder about how we're quick to judge. Were I in your situation, I would carry lots of pictures of us doing family things, and just have an understanding that kid throwing a fit is going to result in you needing to prove who you are.
The closest I come to your situation, is having to prove that our kids are fine, even though we homeschool them. Kid having a fit in public? And they homeschool? There must be something wrong, yes? When I find myself in such unjust situations, I force myself to accept that the reason I'm experiencing grief, is somebody is concerned about my child's safety. So I thank them profusely with as much genuine sincerity that I can force myself to have. Because after all, even though they're wrong and acting out of ignorance, their heart is in the right place.
Posts: 2099 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
On the other hand, you could just let yourselves be taken to the police station. Let the kids see how unfun that is. Once the police get an idea that it's just kids misbehaving, there's several that will make the experience maybe not unpleasant, but definitely not fun.
Usually kids respond to negative reinforcement fairly quickly.
Posts: 10845 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
My "negative consequences" would be corporal punishment.
When a child does that there can only be one of two things going on: they don't know that their behavior can get you in trouble, or they do. If they don't know, obviously you tell them. If they do know, they are intentionally trying to hurt you in a very serious way.
Posts: 464 | Registered: Sep 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
My oldest son used to throw some serious tantrums which included throwing, hitting, death threats.
I caught on quick though. One tantrum he looked me square in the eye and threated to rip up his beautiful poster we had given him of dinosaurs and mythical creatures across the globe if he was not going to get his way. I promptly turned around and ripped the poster off the wall and had it in about 20 pieces on the floor within seconds. He had horror come over his face. I looked him sqaurely in the eye and asked him if he would to like threaten to destroy his bike too and that I could help with that if he would like. His tone quickly changed and he became confused about what tactics might work next. To this day he says I still owe him a poster, and I respond "not a chance".
I hauled my 7yr old (younger son)out of sacrament meeting yesterday, found a classroom and had him sit in a chair quietly until he was ready to behave. He was ready in about 3 minutes. He claimed he was tired, but all his wiggles said otherwise. When I first tried this tactic with him it required physical restraint for him to stay in the chair, and over time he realized he couldnt manipulate his way out of it. My will was too strong.
Wimpy parents bug me! Can you tell?
Posts: 506 | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
afrieds adopted her children as toddlers and as such they have issues outside of the norm. I don't think that physically hurting them or destroying their belongings would have positive benefits. From what I know, she handles it all beautifully and with patience and long-suffering that I don't think I'd have the strength to display.
Posts: 4324 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mormon_Yoda, you do not know me, you do not know my children, and you do not know the h*$! I live each and every day. Thank you for your concern for my ability as a parent.
Look up reactive attachment disorder and multiply it by two. Then realize that my children behave this way because they are so afraid that I will leave them, that they try to force it to happen.
Jen - Thank you, they were actually 3 and 5 and had experienced and witnessed much abuse.
Posts: 894 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
There is a real distinction between how I would treat a kid born and raised in my home and how I would treat a kid with reactive attachment disorder. I have very limited interactions with a family that struggles with this and it is a torment I would not wish on anyone.
You cannot spank a child with RAD. You have to be really careful how you discipline them. Reactive attachment disorder is a testament to just how much a parents love and care matters. Children who start without it are deeply wounded human beings.
Posts: 7922 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have one child that I always worry will be overheard during one of her bad days, and I will end up in custody because of suspected abuse, based on the things that she yells and screams when she is out of control.
If I touch her, she screams "Stop hitting me! You are abusing me!"
I have never hit her. I have only spanked her maybe 4 times, when she was much younger. But, when she is out of control, that is what she does. Any anger or force I would use in response would only escalate the situation.
I can understand why people wouldn't immediately respond to a situation like that. Especially people who struggle with children who act out, who know what it would look like to an outsider.
Posts: 4278 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
Trying to take something generally said on the internet and pretend it is directed solely at you is a pointless exercise in fustration.
My two boys were adopted at ages 4 and 5. They thankfully did not suffer physical abuse. But were neglected like none other. The oldest still exhibits some components of RAD in my opinion, but the tantrums are not there. He is only weeks away from turning 9 and 5 out 7 days a week he sheds tears over something. It could be having to do homework, or having to eat his vegetables or taking a shower. The younger one takes it all in stride. No tantrums anymore though.
I was very strict with my oldest about a behavior reward/punishment system. I did not let any amount of screaming or hyperventilating deter me from laying down the law. For the most part I just ignored his RAD and let him work it out himself. At least thats what I think I did. I treated him as normal as I could. And any kid who kicks the walls, slams doors and threatens to kill you deserves a punishment and I made sure it was followed through. Many times I had to phsyically slam dunk him on the top bunk where his "time out" spot was, but I did it. RAD or not, he was not in charge. There were times for 20 minutes I had to physically restrain him in time out and keep gently explaining that I wouldn't have to squeeze so hard if he would stop trying to escape. Finally, one day it clicked that when I put him in time out, he was going to do it the easy way or the hard way and he finally chose the easy way on his own. Thankfully those days are a few years behind us. Now he calmly walks to time out. But there is still that emotional scars that he hates any type of seperation from us. Having to do homework by himself in the bedroom at his desk is pure torture on him.
These are my experiences. My kids are not your kids and vice versa. There is no "one size" fits all when it comes to raising children. Just do your best and always invite the Lord to guide you.
Posts: 506 | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have physically restrained my children for upwards of four hours (in a DCF approved method). They are extraordinarily tenacious. Time outs do not work because I wear out before they do (hours of putting them back, I stopped counting at 153 times). I do follow through. Whining, screaming, breaking the bathtub, the walls, or anything else has never detered me from a consequence. My children after two years are amazingly better than they were. The older one sits through church, the younger one only has to be taken out once a month, this was due to months of taking them out consistently and requiring them to sit in a chair without moving through the entirety of sacrament meeting. If they didn't, then they would have to come home and sit for the length of one sacrament meeting. My son had not tried to injure me once in the past six months (until today) - he used to attack me daily. Today, he learned rather quickly that the consequence was immediate and the same as before. My father-in-law is amazed at the whistle system we created because they come every time we whistle their whistles. (The whistles keep us from raising our voices to call them). Neither of my children have run away since August - this used to be a weekly, almost daily thing.
You cannot hit or yell at a child with RAD (with my children you cannot even raise your voice at all), but you have to be very firm and consistent with the consequences. Some people think I am too tough.
The thing that has not changed with my younger child is the screaming. and screaming, and screaming, and screaming, and screaming for hours every day. Also the things getting broken. The screaming is what just about kills me. That is the behavior we are really focusing on now because it has GOT to stop. We are working on the breaking things too, but the screaming is absolutely and utterly awful. This is all from my younger child, my older child is in a much, much better place now.
Also with RAD, you have to learn there are things you just don't care about. I don't care if my children choose not to wear a coat in the middle of winter, because I know they will figure out pretty quickly that a coat would be more comfortable. Likewise with sandals. I just don't care, there are more important things than what a child wears. I get called out on what my children are wearing more than anything else.
Posts: 894 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
God bless you, kiddo, and your whole family. Raising my differently wired Boy was a walk in the park compared to what you do. and you do it every day. Thank you for sharing. I stand all amazed. you deserve this and this not commentary from folks that are not in your shoes who make you want to . And by the way: they are beautiful children, I saw the photos!
* makes a note to add to the prayer list.*
Posts: 5467 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
Your story makes me think of an acquaintance who has not one, but two severely autistic children. I have to admire anyone who can deal with it. I would go even battier than I already am.
Posts: 1075 | Registered: Apr 2011
| IP: Logged |
I don't know how old your youngest is so this may or may not help. Have you tried seperation when the screaming starts?
When the screaming starts you put them in a room with the door closed telling them that the screaming hurts mommy's ears. When they stop screaming they can come back out. My kids responded pretty quickly to seperation, which is really the root of the disfunction anyway. They are so afraid of being alone.
OR.. wear earplugs and sing a happy tune completely ignoring the screaming/tantrum.
We typically ignore any fussing/whining and it goes away with a minute or two.
Kids always love to put on a show when they know they have a captive audience.
But seriously , I wonder how your kids would react in the midst of a tantrum if your are just dancing in the kitcen with headphones on, jamming to some groovy 50's dance music.
Everytime they scream, put on the headphones and get your groove on, completely ignoring the tantrum. They may stop midscream and just start giggling at your silliness. Again, the attention is not on them and you give them a huge distraction.
posted
That's exactly what I do. It is how the attacking me stopped. Pretty much anytime he does anything violent (and his screaming has a very violent component) he goes in his room with the door closed and locked. This is to protect everyone from him. He is only 5.
Posts: 894 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Have you ever been in a situation like this original video?
Have you ever intervened between an adult stranger and a child stranger that you didn't know was their child or not?
Just curious... most of us assume the parent's just having a bad day.
Btw, the kid in the video really isn't that convincing... she sounds like she's reading from a script... I would suspect something weird was going on... she just didn't sound scared.
Posts: 13016 | Registered: Oct 98
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, I have been in this situation before. Kid having a fit, threw out the "you're not my mommy" yell. My wife approached the parent in a friendly, nonjudgemental way, and determined to her satisfaction within 30 seconds or so, that the kid was full of it.
quote:most of us assume the parent's just having a bad day.
I sort of disagree. I figure most of us would laugh nervously and lock up, too embarassed to do anything out of fear that we'll look stupid, in denial that we don't have the faintest clue what to do in the first place. A second or two of thinking about it, and we tell ourselves the safe assumption is that this is a parent having a bad day - we tell ourselves this as a way of assauging our anxiety.
What goes down better? Parent having a bad day, or a child is getting abducted right under our noses, and we're too afraid and clueless to do the right thing?
Posts: 2099 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Hail]](graemlins/hail.gif)
and this ![[Hat]](graemlins/hat.gif)
not commentary from folks that are not in your shoes who make you want to ![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
.
