quote:I was told by a member of the Temple presidency when my wife and I were endowed not to wear it to the doctor
I have never heard this. I don't doubt that that's what you were told, but you may want to get a second opinion. Talk to a member of the current temple presidency and see what they say. I was endowed back when all garments were one piece and was told by a friend that most people change out of their garments before going to the doctor, but I was never told by anybody that that's what I should do. Now with two piece garments there doesn't seem to be much point, since the doctor rarely actually sees the garments anyway.
I'm in the military, but have never worn the military garments. Whenever I wear my BDU's I wear a black T-shirt over my garments with my BDU's on top of that. I want to be able to remove my BDU shirt and have the T-shirt covering my garments.
quote:When I had my physical for my mission, the (female) MD told me, "You aren't a true Mormon".
I guess that proves they don't teach class or tact in medical school.
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I would change when I was going to the OB when I was pregnant, because I knew he would be pulling my shirt up and my skirt down to measure my tummy and listen to baby's heartbeat. But I changed right back in when I got home. If I'm going for something else, I usually wear them, although if I know I'm going to have to strip from the waist down, I won't. However, I think most men don't encounter that the way women going to the gynecologist often do!
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quote:quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I had my physical for my mission, the (female) MD told me, "You aren't a true Mormon". --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess that proves they don't teach class or tact in medical school. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am sure others would have been nicer. In this doctor's defense, I think part of her word choice was due to her culture.
When I was doing a fieldwork (in Florida) for therapy, one of the occupational therapists found out I was LDS and asked me she could ask me a question. She then said she heard that we "have holes in our underclothes" and thought that was funny and wanted to know if it was true.
So I briefly explained that our garments have special sacred meaning. I said that there are certain marks and that after use, we "cut these" sacred marks before throwing them away. Yeah, I know many would think this is too much. However, she accepted and understood this explanation. She apeared satisfied w/this. She didn't ask anything else. My rationale was to help educate her for any of her future patients that might be endowed LDS, ie so that she would have more understanding of unique aspects that might impact them as a patient, ie if they chose to wear garments while they were at her facility. In our specific area of occupational therapy, one of our essential focuses in healthcare to teach patients w/injury/disease how to get back to getting dressed, getting out of bed and going to the toilet, etc So I didn't feel it was bad to give her this level of info on the garments. I appreciate learning things about other cultures/religions so I can know how to best help people from that culture/religion. This was my reasoning.
posted
It is not 2 years yet since I was Endowed, but I was told that I could remove my Garment to visit the doctor if I felt it necessary to avoid ridicule. In the last 18 months I have pratically lived in the doctor's surgery and have never once removed them.
My doctor has never asked any questions about them, and if she did, I would just politely explain that they have a religious significance, and represented nothing out of the ordinary to me, any more than the turban of a sikh or the veil of a muslim woman represents anything out of the ordinary, but we don't question their need to wear those.
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I'm co-leading our medical school's interfaith group, whose purpose is to teach the other medical students about practicing medicine on those of other religions and cultures. I'm going to try and bring in a Mormon physician to each of our panel discussions.
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quote:So I briefly explained that our garments have special sacred meaning. I said that there are certain marks and that after use, we "cut these" sacred marks before throwing them away. Yeah, I know many would think this is too much. However, she accepted and understood this explanation. She apeared satisfied w/this.
I think you did fine. What you told her was very appropriate and in no way did you tell her more than you should.
And it was probably better than "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you."
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So Nita, d'you think she really meant we have "holes in our underclothes"? Or maybe she misheard someone mentioning that we have "Holey underclothes"! Posts: 5841 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote: So Nita, d'you think she really meant we have "holes in our underclothes"? Or maybe she misheard someone mentioning that we have "Holey underclothes"!
Hi Jenna- she definitely asked if we have holes in our underclothes, as she thought is was kind of unusual! But that is a funny thought! I didn't ask her more about what she had heard,e tc
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JennaDean made me laugh out loud when she said
quote: Not to be too personal, but if you're changing ALL your clothes, couldn't you take off your shirt and garment top at the same time? And same for your pants and garment bottoms? Then they would be kept out of sight.
The idea of showing our nakedness to strangers in order to cover the garment seems somehow ironic and very funny to me. It should be in a cartoon...
Anyway, I work out in regular clothes (jeans or chakis and a shirt) I have been doing it that way for a while now and other people have also begun to work out in casual clothes too...
I just don't see the point of buying clothes JUST to work out in, get sweaty and wash. And actually I don't have aproblem being naked in public place (well, restrooms, lockers etc!)
My advice Tim is not to worry about "the right way" just make your best decision while making sure your heart is in the right way. The Lord knows our intents are not to dishonor or mock the garment. And we will not be held accoutnable for the actions of others...
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quote:My advice Tim is not to worry about "the right way" just make your best decision while making sure your heart is in the right way. The Lord knows our intents are not to dishonor or mock the garment. And we will not be held accoutnable for the actions of others...
I would agree with this wise advice. There does not seem to be the one, true "right way" - as we see in the various responses to this and other questions about garments. It's one of those areas where we have to make the decision that we can feel good about.
In certain military situations, I've worn garments with no problems. In others, I've decided not to wear them. Both times, I felt that I made the right decision. I've also removed them in a situation where I was on the verge of a heat injury doing a summer job (roofing in Texas) - I definitely made the right decision there, for health reasons. Others might have decided differently.
The bottom line is the Lord knows our intentions and will judge accordingly.
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On my surgery rotation we were not supposed to wear anything with sleeves under our scrubs, so I would not wear the garments on surgery days (which was pretty much every day).
I would also add that what the temple presidency says to you is just guiding advice to "get you started out" while you accustom yourself to wearing the garments. After a while you'll get used to them and be able to figure out for yourself what is best, most respectful, etc. for your garments. Remember that they are symbols of something, and not a means unto themselves.
quote: I would also add that what the temple presidency says to you is just guiding advice to "get you started out" while you accustom yourself to wearing the garments.
Well I didn't gain any impression that what the Matron told me at the Temple was just 'guiding advice, nor from what my Stake President told me in my Recommend interview, as he spoke to me about the wearing of the Garment in the interview. To suggest it is advice suggests that one can then leave the Temple and make personal choices about wearing the Garment. I do not believe this to be correct.
I accept that there are times and places where they cannot or should not be worn, but my own understanding of this is that it is an exception, and not a rule.
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This whole thread is reminding me of the time my MIL "accidentally" found our (mine and her son's) garments during a visit to her home. She tried to play it off, but it was so clear that she had been nosing around that it really made me uncomfortable.
Oh, and along the lines of the doctor saying someone wasn't a "true Mormon" because they weren't wearing garments, it reminded me of a time (in my early 20s) when my best friend (not a member) from high school came to me and said:
"Hey! I was talking to someone the other day and they were saying Mormons have to wear some kind of strange underwear and I TOTALLY defended you! I told them straight out that I had seen you in your underwear plenty of times in high school, and the underwear was COMPLETELY normal!!!"
I couldn't decide which was funnier...having to explain to her that I do in fact wear specific underwear due to my religion; or the fact that she so clearly remembered seeing me in my underwear!!
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My grandmother was at our home folding laundry one time, and asked me if I wore "funny underwear" now that I was married. I said I did. Her response was just that "I didn't know when it happened, I just knew that your daddy didn't wear underwear like this when he lived in my house!"
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To suggest it is advice suggests that one can then leave the Temple and make personal choices about wearing the Garment.
Frankly, that is the case as far as wearing it to the doctor is concerned. We should use our best inspired judgement.
A temple president or matron who says something such as "never wear the garment to the doctor" is giving non-doctrinal and inappropriate "one-size-fits-all" direction. IMHO.
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I go to the gym every other day and have had only one comment made. Once someone said something about them but when I turned around, I discovered it was a member from an adjacent ward, also standing in his garments. I don't know about women, but guys aren't that interested in underwear.
I once was asked to address a legal publication's board about the Church. One of the first things they asked was about garments. I had been warned that they thought garments were very curious. I explained that it is something I consider sacred and that religious clothing is nothing new. I gave examples of yarmukle worn by Jews and scapulas worn by Catholics. They backed off in a hurry.
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Of course what they tell you is just advice, to get you started. The general rule, of course, is to wear them as much as possible. But not in every situation. And the fact that the temple presidency does not elaborate to you what you should do in every single possible situation in life proves what I was saying, that they are giving advice to get you started. If they were somehow "laying down the law" then that interview would be very long and arduous; you would go with pen and paper to take notes: "okay, wear them for this, bring them so I can change into them for that, don't wear them for the other....." That's just silly. Our covenants are between us and the Lord; it is up to us to make these sorts of decisions and respect the garments to the best of our abilities.
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quote: I go to the gym every other day and have had only one comment made. Once someone said something about them but when I turned around, I discovered it was a member from an adjacent ward, also standing in his garments. I don't know about women, but guys aren't that interested in underwear.
Just a random thought only vaguely connected to the discussion: Men's garments do resemble boxer shorts and t-shirts, which many men wear for underclothing whether or not they're Mormon. So men's garments, while distinctive, are not radically different from ordinary underclothing.
Women's ordinary underclothing looks nothing at all like boxer shorts and t-shirts, so a woman in garments looks a bit more out of the ordinary than a man in garments.
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"Are you quite sure they're called: Scapulas?"
I know, Flybynight, it took me a little research because is sounds like the shoulder blade. Here's a link to a picture. My understanding is they were worn so that the pictures are over your breast bone in the front and in the middle of your back in the back. They aren't that common now adays.
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I see, but that's more along the line of religous jewelry. Next time you might want to mention: copes (the little jacket cape), miters (the pointed hats) albs & surplices' (not sure of the exact difference in as much as they're both a type of the underlying white robe).
At least for catholics (and a few other denominations).
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Well, I guess they could be considered jewelry, but I think they are worn under the clothing. But I'm not sure about that at all and I don't want to make the same mistaks people make about us. Before I knew anything about the Church I was told that Mormons wear special underwear that they take into the tub with them, and I believed it. It was one of the first things I asked during the discussions.
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It in interesting to me that these kinds of discussions draw so many posts. It seems pretty clear that what you do is between you and the Lord and is NOBODY else's business.
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True, but nobody has told anybody else what to do. We're just providing input for somebody who has asked for assistance with the decision-making process.
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And I do appreciate all the posts here it has given me much to think about. And some to laugh about.
I think Gish made a great point about showing nakedness to keep the garment meant to cover nakedness from being seen.
Taking the garment off with the pants and shirt works for pants but not with a button shirt, which I wear mostly.
I think I will prayerfully consider it and make my own choice. I had thought of talking with the Bishop or Temple president but I have a feeling now I may well get a different answer depending on who I ask and so will do best to find my own answer.
Thanks again folks! Tim
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quote: It seems pretty clear that what you do is between you and the Lord and is NOBODY else's business.
Sisters stop me frequently and tell me I am wearing my Garments incorrectly, so I think I will just bottle that phrase and carry it around with me.
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quote:Taking the garment off with the pants and shirt works for pants but not with a button shirt, which I wear mostly.
You can take a button shirt off just like a t-shirt if you unbutton just the top 2-3 buttons.
I attended an osteopathic school, so there were plenty of opportunities for me to take my shirt off in class when we were studying OMT. Taking the garments off as if they were connected to your clothes is hands-down the best way to approach the situation.
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quote: How would they even know, shame on them for the lack of tact
They know because they can see the symbols on my garment top!
I mentioned this here before, but one sister at a Distribution Centre commented on it rather loudly in front of all the men in the store, I explained to her that I was wearing them in accordance with what I had discussed with my Stake President and a General Authority, she told me they were both wrong.
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