posted
The hardest thing about talking about my marital problems right now, is keeping the judgements at bay. It is very easy to go there. It's simple to say, "End it", as if ending it will solve all my problems. I could take him out of my life, but would my life become better because of it? You might say, "Of course, look at what he has done!" But you are assuming that my life and my children's would be better because he is gone. No one knows the future, no one can give me that guarantee.
My life is just not that black and white. Is anyones? I'm not what you would call a shrinking violet. I am a strong person. If I was asked a year ago if I would stay with my H if he ever hit me, I would have said no! Why would anyone ever say yes? No one wants things like this to happen. But it has happened. It was like a huge balloon popped after 9 months of being blown up. Now things are different. He wants his family back. He has his own place, and is suddenly free to go any time he wants to the other woman's house but he ended the relationship and he wants to be here. I feel a little hopeful. Maybe you think that hope is actually denial on my part. You need to understand that I have always been the stronger one in my marriage. He has always needed me more. I know that I could get along without him. I guess I feel this way. Would you "divorce" your parents because of some of the stupid mistakes they made raising you? Or your brothers or sisters? He is my family. He is flawed, but he is not the evil villian in the corner, rubbing his hands together and laughing meniacally. He is trying. Our problems are FAR from over. He still doesn't know what he thinks about the church. He still hates his job...believe me, I am not in denial. It is scary knowing that there is a lot of hard work in front of us, and who knows how long it will take to "fix" it. I just can't throw it away.
Our son died on September 11th, 1995. I know what it is like to loose someone you love. Maybe that is what is driving me now. They say that divorce is like a death. I know the reality of it. I'd better be SURE that the marriage is broken beyond all fixable measures before I even consider divorce.
Posts: 332 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I know you said you are strong, but wanted you to know you have my support. I'll continue to pray for you and your family. If there is anything more I can do (putting your name in the temple, locating church books I may be able to get here that you can't find etc.) please let me know.
Posts: 4949 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I've never been divorced, but I've personally witnessed half a dozen divorces and interacted quite a bit with those involved.
Perhaps the pain and terrible change it brings is like death on some level. But it's the kind of death where the ex-spouse stays alive and interacts with you and the kids for as long as everybody still breathes. No matter how this ends up, you both are still your kids' parents, and will be involved in their lives in some way, at some level.
Rushing into anything is pretty much unwarranted. Moving forward with a firm, righteous plan is very much warranted, and in fact is your duty as a parent.
quote:Would you "divorce" your parents because of some of the stupid mistakes they made raising you?
Interesting question. The answer is yes. I know someone who cut off ties from her parents after they turned a blind eye while an older brother sexually molested her and a brother as children, and turned a blind eye as the molested brother began to act out and went on to molest two children of his own and end up in prison. I shouldn't say she's cut off all ties, but any tie they wish to have must start with their public admission about how they lied in court about this woman.
Yes, most certainly, a thousand times yes, there is no righteous bond that someone broken or evil enough cannot give up all rights to.
In 1943, we excommunicated an Apostle for adultury. In 1989, we exed a member of the 1st quorum of the 70 for molesting a child. A member of the first presidency once bemoaned that so much of their time was taken up researching and granting cancellations of temple sealings due to the horrible actions of one party.
We can, on this earth, act in ways that effectively tear up our parent card, our spouse card, our church membership card, even our church leader card. It not only can, but does happen - and it happens often.
quote: This one time episode of lashing out physcially does not make a man a Monster.
He was a Monster for that one episode. This is not about us judging him (I hope). Mayeb he will be found innocent. We certainly have a biased perception of the facts. But the courts can determine the appropriate legal action and help him on his road to forgiveness. Yes it is scary, but being willing to tread the road of repentance is what truly seperates men from monsters.
quote: Our son died on September 11th, 1995. ... I'd better be SURE that the marriage is broken beyond all fixable measures before I even consider divorce.
I am so sorry for the loss of your son. No marriage is broken beyond fixing if all partners want is fixed. Nothing is beyond the Lord's power to repair and bind if you and your hubby are BOTH dedicated to the cause.
The loss of a child very often does cause divorce. It is hard to deal with. The emotional wound left-over is slow to clot and never totaly heals...
Don't confuse the marriage/divorce decision with the prosecute or ignore decision. You can easily prosecute and remain married. You deciding if you can remain married after an episode of abuse does have some similarities to him deciding if he can remain married after you turned him in. Of course him turning himself in puts everything in a better light...
You and your hubby and family will continue to be in my prayers.
Posts: 1237 | Registered: Sep 2002
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A lot has been invested in your relationship over the eyars, mombob. It is definitely in your best interest to preserve that if possible if your marriage can be what it was again (or at least what you want it to be). I hope it can work out the best for all of you.
Being a guy and husband I like to think as dwelt does but there are too many examples to ignore of how it doesn't work out. So, it is important to be cautious and prayerful.
My mom realized how bad and how many warning signs existed during her marriage that she missed. Finally, when it started getting more intense (a physical incident - up to then it had been verbal) and evidence if infedility arose she knew it was time. She has put up with a lot over the years but didn't want to hurt her children. Being from a foreign country with only a GED education she not confident she could succeed at supporting three children herself.
Posts: 5576 | Registered: Sep 2001
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Gishfarm, on what basis do you suggest that repentance requires that he turn himself into civilian authorities and give them the evidence to convict him of anything?
I've had occasion to ask multiple priesthood leaders over the years (in the US) whether a person had to waive his 5th amendment rights to avoid self-incrimination in order to repent. In every case, I have been told that the answer is NO.
And the criminal charge would likely be battery, not assault. Assault is the threat, battery is the hitting, magnified by the domestic situation, so it is often called domestic battery. (OTOH, OP took his phone and wouldn't give it back. Assuming he paid for the phone, she may be guilty of theft, which is the possession of something for the purpose of depriving the rightful owner of something even for a moment. You get in this court fight and who knows how it will play out, or when. Does OP really want her 16 year old on the stand testifying against her and her husband? And would justice really be done if society insisted on it?)
If he doesn't turn himself in, that does not mean he isn't repentant or say anything about what kind of a man he is. (If he lies about what happened that would be another thing, though eyewitness accounts are often inaccurate.)
Posts: 2180 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Except that whole community property thing. I'm sure they've been married long enough that her holding on to something of his could not be called theft. At any rate, I certainly hope you're not putting that any where near the same universe as spousal battery.
Posts: 4327 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:At any rate, I certainly hope you're not putting that any where near the same universe as spousal battery.
She didn't. She pointed out that there were more legal issues in play than just the hitting. She's an attorney- so I'm gonna guess she has some idea about these things.
Posts: 7937 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Just my two cents- I think we are going round and round with this situation. I believe a lot of good advice has been given and now we should sit back and pray that she and her husband will make the right choices regarding their marriage, and she will feel at peace with what has been decided.
Posts: 666 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Mombob - you didn't say anything, but I put "mombob and husband" on the prayer role yesterday in the Jordan temple. I don't know if anyone reads them or anything, but I figure the Lord knows who I was talking about even if no one else does. I hope that is alright with you.
Posts: 4949 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I think that's a lovely thing to do. When people going throgh hard times are face difficult decisions we pray for them, thinking at the least, that is all we can do for them. But what a powerful gift that is, to put in His hands the the situations that our finite minds struggle to deal with.
Mombob you are in my prayers. I pray you will be guided to do things that are right for you and your family.
Posts: 291 | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote: Gishfarm, on what basis do you suggest that repentance requires that he turn himself into civilian authorities and give them the evidence to convict him of anything?
I've had occasion to ask multiple priesthood leaders over the years (in the US) whether a person had to waive his 5th amendment rights to avoid self-incrimination in order to repent. In every case, I have been told that the answer is NO.
...
If he doesn't turn himself in, that does not mean he isn't repentant or say anything about what kind of a man he is. (If he lies about what happened that would be another thing, though eyewitness accounts are often inaccurate.)
Any number of scriptures lead me to believe that as part of the repentance process we need to take accountability for our actions. The scriptures also discuss the consequences of us trying to hide and cover up our sins. Part of repentance is confession. Sometimes the right forum for that confession is a court-room.
No one said anything about giving up rights. Unless you think it is a criminals right to escape scott free after committting a crime. Besides, as far as principles guiding my life, I'll take Gospel principles over legal technicalities anyday (I hope I still feel this way should my position be reversed someday).
The fact is he probably CAN get away with it. Whether he DOES or not indicates to me some level of his true repentance.
I don't know the specifics of why a priesthod leader would recommend that someone not testify, but I bet that was not in cases they willingly turned themselves in for a crime they actually did commit. Maybe you'd care to share more specifics on a few of these cases that we could discuss further?
Posts: 1237 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Discussion on this thread would be a derail. (I'm concerned that our continued discussion may just be causing the OP more stress.) See new thread
Posts: 2180 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Yes, great link. It's sort of a checklist of evidence supporting the notion that someone is repenting and has a broken heart and contrite spirit, vs. evidence that he's still a dangerous threat to innocent folk and may need to be kept at a certain legal and physical distance.
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I know you said you are strong, but wanted you to know you have my support. I'll continue to pray for you and your family. If there is anything more I can do (putting your name in the temple, locating church books I may be able to get here that you can't find etc.) please let me know.
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