posted
Here's how I phrased this question elsewhere:
As money is simply the measure of the degree to which you withhold your time, talents, and energy from your fellow man, do you believe that money shall be deployed during the Millennium?
When I asked this question in the foyer at Church, I got 4 to 2 against the use of money.
More generally, what do you think the economics of Zion shall be? What will we be doing when we're not at the temples? Do you think the technologies we're used to today will be in use, such as planes, trains, and automobiles? How about computers? If the earth shall receive again its paradisaical glory, then would we expect tech that requires pollution in its production, or in its use, to be in use?
quote:As money is simply the measure of the degree to which you withhold your time, talents, and energy from your fellow man
I don't follow you. When I sit there at work and share those things with my fellow man, they give me money. It is a measure of the degree to which others value me sharing these things.
(Mind you, I'm surely not opposed to replacing any earthly system of economics with something better from heaven. I'm looking forward to that aspect of it.)
A few things that keep me sober about the millenium: First, the Lord will use deadly violence to overthrow anyone who needs overthrowing. Second, His ensuing world government will use force to obtain total obedience from individuals and nations, whether they like it or not.
quote:The Lord will be king over all the earth, and all mankind literally under his sovereignty, and every nation under the heavens will have to acknowledge his authority, and bow to his scepter. Those who serve him in righteousness will have communications with God, and with Jesus; will have the ministering of angels, and will know the past, the present, and the future; and other people, who may not yield full obedience to his laws, nor be fully instructed in his covenants, will, nevertheless, have to yield full obedience to his government. For it will be the reign of God upon the earth, and he will enforce his laws, and command that obedience from the nations of the world which is legitimately his right -Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor [2001], 225.
Sounds great, if you're the right sort of person. Sounds a bit challenging if you're the wrong sort. I find it interesting that even after the wholesale slaughter of the wicked, there will still be plenty of people around who need to be subdued and ruled by force.
(And it's a dang shame that the board rules prevent me from delivering a very witty zinger right now about the political beliefs of some of my fellow nauvoo posters.)
posted
I don't see how that description can be consistent with the millenium as 1000 years of peace. And there are plenty of good people who will not be destroyed because they are good, who none the less to not recognize Heavenly Father's plan. I think there will be economic changes -- don't think there will be much use for correctional officers or court personnel, or poppy planters. But there should be the same need for roads for mortals (though the resurrected won't need them presumably). I think there will be a need for money (they will pay tithing, for instance).
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posted
What need will there be for money? What function will it perform? In the presence of money, how can there be temporal equality among men, as God has said is his desire?
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posted
The Law of Consecration and money are not mutually exclusive. Someone has to allocate the resources with some token. I don't see any reason that we are going to have to return to an only agrarian society (and even if we did, how would cotton growing areas get material to non cotton growing areas without long distance transport and some sort of accounting for the resources to do it?
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quote:The Law of Consecration and money are not mutually exclusive. Someone has to allocate the resources with some token.
Really? Why?
quote:I don't see any reason that we are going to have to return to an only agrarian society (and even if we did, how would cotton growing areas get material to non cotton growing areas without long distance transport and some sort of accounting for the resources to do it?
I do see a reason: pollution. I bid you to observe that the world is the way it is by "virtue" of money.
Why would anyone live in non-cotton growing areas? Who says we won't be using hemp? Whose values should be used to differentiate between the worth of one laborer's work and another's?
As Zion is based upon the Celestial order, I wonder if you believe God and the angels are trading one with another, withholding their substance and their labor from one another save it be they shall be bribed with tokens.
quote:"Having adequate nourishment (diatrophas) and decent covering (skepasmata) we shall with these suffice ourselves (arkesthesometha). But those who want to be rich (ploutein) fall into temptation (peirasmon, a test) and a snare (pagida, a trap, noose, decoy), and into hankering for many things (epithumias, a passionate desire to possess) which are silly (anoetous, mindless, senseless) and harmful (blaberas), and which drag (buthizousi, plunge) human beings down to ruin (olethron, deadly danger) and utter destruction (apoleian). For the root (rhiza) of all evil doings (panton ton kakon) is the desire for money (philargyria, cash-loving), being driven by which people have gone astray, got lost (apeplanethesan; Hebrew, abad, stray from the path) from the faith and become hopelessly involved (peripeiran, spitted, entangled) in agonizing situations (odunais, rapids, pangs). But thou, O man of God, keep away from these things" (1 Timothy 6:8-11).
quote:I don't see how that description can be consistent with the millenium as 1000 years of peace
Which description? Mine or John Taylors? I figured they were both pretty similar.
(And I agree with you, by the way - I don't really get how enforced laws and commanded obedience is consistent with the phrase "1000 years of peace" either.)
quote:Why would anyone live in non-cotton growing areas?
My wife. Angora goats do well in higher elevations than where cotton thrives.
posted
The nice thing about money is that it is a whole lot more conveneint than a barter system. I'm an engineer. I can't imagine a sustem where my employer would pay me in dairy and produce.
I've wondered, too, about how much tech there will be, but computers (fro example) are too valuable for record keeping (such as genealogy and temple work) to just toss it aside. All of the FamilySearch Indexing effort would go totally to waste without computers.
As for pollution-free transportation, I suppose that if there is some totally green way to go about it, then Christ isn't going to keep it a secret and hope we figure it out eventually on our own.
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quote:The nice thing about money is that it is a whole lot more conveneint than a barter system. I'm an engineer. I can't imagine a sustem where my employer would pay me in dairy and produce.
Why do you assume there will be economic exchange?
quote:As for pollution-free transportation, I suppose that if there is some totally green way to go about it, then Christ isn't going to keep it a secret and hope we figure it out eventually on our own.
posted
In the millennium we'll be immortal, so we won't need to eat. So the food industry and all parts thereof are not needed.
Will we need transit? More than likely, but we'll have an unlimited supply of immortal resurrected horses.
We will need high speed communication. And this is the one area where I think technology (of some sort) will remain in the millennium. In fact, if the technology is sufficiently advanced high speed transit won't be needed. However, I don't think we'll have competing technologies, the world will settle on Google or Apple.
Therefore, trade isn't really needed. What would we be trading? If everyone has what they need, then it's just a matter of wants.
Also, what would we be doing with our time? All these industries are no longer needed: Finance/banking Advertising and marketing Health care Restaurants (anything and everything related to food)
I'm sure there's more, but overall, I would say that 70-90% of the people will do something other than what they did for a career. (Excepting of course mom's).
I think the remainder of us will be doing temple or temple related work. If there's bartering, then there will be a way to compare value, and that is really what money does for us. Money is nothing but a temporary holding place for a thing of value. So, if there is trading then there will be money.
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posted
I hope so. I really hope there will be onion rings in the millennium.
I had always been told that we will all be working flat out in the temples during the millennium, getting everything ready for Judgement Day. That seems entirely reasonable to me.
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If the resurrected Jesus ate fish and honeycomb, I am supposing we will also be able to eat food. Not for sustenance, but for break bread together coming together- I think it is a possibility.
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posted
During the millenium, we will move from mortality to immortality in an instant. But there will still be mortals being born and raised and they will need food.
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posted
If there is one thing I cannot tolerate, it's people who invoke the sacred name of cake when I haven't any.
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posted
I'm in favor of everyone having their own Star Trek "replicator," which is a device that can manufacture anything (food, gold, a Furby) very quickly. The notion is that if everyone can have everything and anything they want, then there is no practical need for covetousness or greed. However, giving a replicator to a hoarder might cause some interesting problems. As the saying goes, it is impossible to get "enough" of something that you don't need.
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posted
Maybe cake will be the new money. After all since we'll be immortal and won't need to eat then we can pick and choose what we want to eat. Cake for breakfast lunch and dinner. And since we'll have perfect bodies none of that sugar hangover. Paradise
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