posted
I’m surprised there hasn’t been a flurry of posts here on the First Presidency’s letter read in sacrament meetings sometime in the last few weeks about Church meetinghouses not being used any longer for home schooling activities.
Posts: 230 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I am a homeschooler. This isn't really a big deal to us. The rules were very ambiguous. You could use the meetinghouses for activites but not classes. This got interpreted a lot of different ways. Some wards have never allowed use of thier facilities for homeschoolers while some allowed limited use. The letter just makes it consistent.
Liability and other issues being what they are, I have no problem with this. It isn't a statement about homeschooling as an educational choice. It is a determination of how church resources will be used by those in authority to make the call.
Besides, it give my kids more opportunities to hang out in other churches that do allow the use of their buildings. This has been good for their view of other religions.
Posts: 1451 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
For most homeschoolers it isn't a big deal. Our local group meets at another church. In a pinch, our group is small enough that it could probably meet at someone's home. There was a flurry of discussion on the lds homeschool email group I'm on, but most people felt that it wasn't a big deal. I think it would be a big deal if it were a statement on homeschooling itself, one way or the other. You can bet there'd be a spirited discussion if the church sent out a letter either praising or condemning homeschooling.
Posts: 1677 | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
In my ward there are 17 home-schooling families but they never use the meetinghouse.
There has not been a letter regarding this read in our sacrament meeting yet so I don't know what the letter says but it doesn't seem to apply to our ward. Maybe the leadership decided that since it didn't apply they didn't need to address it.
I believe that school activities and classes should not be conducted at the church meetinghouse.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Wasn't there a big long thread about this very subject? Did it get deleted because it went off the deep end? There has been so much of that lately, I can't keep track.
My experience: Jr. Jazz doesn't ask for permission, they just get a key and show up. They also are not supposed to be using church facilities. They just don't ask.
Posts: 11704 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
P.S. For those who don't know: Jr. Jazz is a "little league" type program for 8 year olds up to mid-teenagers that the Utah Jazz Basketball team lends their name to.
Posts: 11704 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
It seems our "gyms" are open for nieghborhood basketball any time it is not scheduled for ward use ( enrichment, scouts, recpetions). Jr Jazz, aerobics, the basketball pick up games, quilting. Most of our ward houses up in the Edgemont area are open almost every night for basketball... and I wouldnt care if the Jr Jazz kids practiced in the gym even if they had to schedule it...
posted
The trouble with Jr Jazz practices in the church is that only a select few with keys get to use the church for practices. Since community basketball facilities are scarce this gives those with access to the cultural halls an unfair advantage.
Posts: 230 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
[toungue in cheek post] More than one person has come up and asked me something to the tune of "So Homestar, you're one of them wacked-out homeschoolers; aint'cha ticked off this?"
Of course I'm not upset.
First of all, I don't get my official "whacked-out homeschooler" badge until kid number one reaches the age of compulsory education in CO, which is currently seven. We've got three more years to go there.
Second, none of the homeschooling groups in my area were doing anything in the ward building. Not even the LDS HS group operating in this area somewhere.
Third, the Church's policy is consistent and reasonable. I'm hearing some muted muttering from other LDS homeschoolers, but it's not like we're being singled out here. Sounds like some of your buildings is having some non-lds sponsored activity - this isn't really church policy and ought to be handled as well. As for my building, I can only think of one non-lds sponsored thing occurring in the last half-decade.
The closest thing to a valid gripe I've heard runs along the lines of "Most homeschooling activities occur during the day, when the church building sits empty." The church's stated issues - safety and tax liabilities - are issues that need addressing no matter what time of day we're talking about.
So no, I won't be tearing up my tithing form and picketing Sacrament meeting any time soon.
HSR [/toungue in cheek post]
Posts: 1389 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
There have been other building usage changes over the years. Back when wards raised their own budget money, there was a time when they'd conduct bazaars and use the proceeds to fund their budget. The church decided to put a stop to that for tax reasons. Many other churchs still hold bazaars. In my mind there is nothing inherently wrong with a church raising money that way. But the church decided not to raise money that way, and I'm sure it's for the best. So, when they announced the policy of not allowing hs activities in church buildings, I wasn't put out. First, our hs group doesn't use our church building. Second, if the church wants to be above reproach in every possible way, then that's fine.
Posts: 1677 | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Did you know that wooden basketball floors are the single most expesive maintenance item in a standard chruch building?
Posts: 11704 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
This just seems consistent with the policy against using church buildings for political meetings, etc. The letter seemed to be clarifying the appropriate use of buildings. Maybe they need to address the basketball issue next, lol.
Posts: 339 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote: Maybe they need to address the basketball issue next, lol.
Amen, You have identified a real problem that I've noticed developing over the last few years. The trend of most new buildings having such small courts, that a good five on five game is hard to play safely (well as safely as any game of church-ball can be). Posts: 2912 | Registered: Jan 2005
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I KNOW! And no stage for the little ones to run around on during the basketball playing. It's a travesty!
Posts: 339 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Our 3 million dollar Ward Building is treated like a museum now. No activities... For fear of Physical Facilities Department. It is a place where no one is welcome during the week. All started when the kids used the 50,000 dollar folding doors behind Chapel as a "crash into wall" thus knocking the pew in front down and bending the curtain.
Posts: 63 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I accidently ordered a book about home schooling. Anybody have any children that you want to lend me so I can try out the theories? Posts: 3434 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
My older sister used to say that she wanted to borrow some kids to take to the zoo, and other activities that are more enjoyable with kids. She said they should rent them out, and you could return them when they get fussy. hehe Posts: 1640 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
My sister accidently "ordered" a book. She'd put this book on her Amazon "Wish" list, so she could remember it to buy it for her mother-in-law. But her mother-in-law saw it on the list, thought it looked so good, and bought it for my sister--who never wanted it in the first place!
Posts: 1640 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Dangermom, I would love to have the opportunity!
How I Ordered the wrong book: Tyro had a blog on about May 30th about Books on Books. She recommended the book The Well-educated Mind by Susan Wise Bauer with the subtitle A Guide to the Classical Education You Never Had. She cautioned people not to confuse that with The Well-Trained Mind by Jessie Wise and Susan Bauer. Only I did not read that closely enough until after placing my order. Tyro said I would still get a lot out of the book though it is aimed towards home schooling. I agree that I have gained some interesting background information. Also, having taken a lot of coure courses in education when I was studying to be an elementary education teacher, it is interesting to see the theories proposed here.
I wanted to add something about a young man who I saw interviewed on The View over a year ago. This young man was homeless at one point due to a series of financial setbacks to his mother. His mother knew he was a bright child. She home-schooled him. He achieved a perfect score on the SAT. What was more was that this young man had worked on a lot of character development during that time was hoping to be able to attend a Christian college where he could further this character development.
Posts: 3434 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Well, obviously I am missing out by failing to read Tyro's blog. I have both those books and while I can see that WTM is perhaps pleasant and informative for you, it's a little expensive for what you weren't really looking for! (Do you have any acquaintances thinking of homeschooling? Maybe you could unload it for a small discount off the cover price...)
WTM is one of my main homeschooling books, and I'm curious about what you think of its theories. I should perhaps mention, if you didn't know it already, that the authors have said many times that no human being could actually do everything listed in the book; you're meant to pick and choose. Still, when I picked it up it was the book that made me think "hey, I could do this!" But that may be because I'm nuts.
And Dangermom the librarian has to ask: have you checked your local library for the WEM book? Posts: 562 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Dangermom, I know it would be very practical to give the book to my cousin as I just found out that he and his wife took him out of the Christian school is attending to home school him. I do not like to touch things and later have other people touch them though so I am not able to give it to him. I may discuss concepts with him, however. I do not check books out of the library for the same reason. I am sure that is more than you wanted to know.
I do think that it sounds like a pretty sound program. I actually was acquainted with the Trivium before purchasing as an LDS friend of mine is home-schooling her daughter. The curriculum she uses starts with a pretty intense reading program in kindergarten. At my last knowledge, I think she was in about first grade and reading a few grades ahead. My sister who works in Public Relations at a University was skeptical. She said that home schoolers do not have accurate measures. I informed my sister that my friend also holds a teaching degree and has taught in the school system before.
When I ordered Well Trained mind, it also suggested the Trivium by Sister Miriam Joseph so I ordered it too. I think I will get a lot out of that.
I would really like to have some good style books for the English language. I find them rather relaxing to read.
posted
Hm, that would make life difficult; sorry about that. I own the Trivium book, and I'm sorry to say I found it difficult and boring. But that is probably evidence that I am inadequate to it, rather than evidence of its badness. Let me know what you think.
Posts: 562 | Registered: Feb 2002
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dangermom, It's so interesting the different reactions we had to Well-Trained Mind. I thought it sounded like a great education but it totally sounded overwhelming. I hated the stuff she emphasizes in her education plan when I was in school and I just couldn't see focusing on it for my kids. I have to admit I'm more into being more child-directed in my teaching if I homeschool. Have you used the Well-Trained Mind with your kids? How has it gone?
posted
Sarah, we're only just going into kindergarten now, so I have not actually implemented anything much yet; WTM is not big on kindergarten and I've pretty much made up what we're going to do. I've used some recommendations and been happy with them.
I think what made me happy with the book was partly that it was one of the first I ran into with a definite plan, and we are going to need some structure if we're going to be able to do this. While it's quite true that the book can be overwhelming--no one could possibly do it all--I really liked the idea of doing history from start to finish, and relating other studies to that. And DangerGirl is the kind of kid who likes that stuff (small daughter is 2 and so far I can't tell, except that she is a puzzle fiend).
I definitely plan on being more relaxed than a strict following of the book would allow, though.
Was it the emphasis on grammar you didn't like? I learned none in school, and have suffered the lack, so we'll work on it--if not quite so intensively as they recommend! What was it you found difficult?
I'm a librarian, and so I researched obsessively for quite a while and I like order and some structure. Partly, I suppose, because I'm so messy and ineffectual without some (and even with it...). Anyway we'll see how it turns out.
Posts: 562 | Registered: Feb 2002
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It is funny how things go. If I had not ordered WTM, I would not have been given the link to order the Trivium. I think I have found some merit in reading WTM. I am really enjoying The Trivium. Courses on language and thought were among my favorites in school so this is not too surprising to me.
Some children like memorization. Also, I think it can be important for forming connections in the mind. There is a study that was not related to WTM or Trivium that I think is worth mentioning. Children who know are familliar with nursery rhymes measure higher on pre-reading skills than other children even when you factor out demographic factors.
Posts: 3434 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
dangermom, I didn't even see your reply to me until today!!! What I didn't like as much about Well-Trained Mind was the emphasis on literature and philosophy. I grew up in a math/science home. I did fine in English (even liked grammar a lot because it made sense to me) and was a decent writer, but literature gave me headaches. When I read the book, I thought "How can I make my kids read something that I hated!" However, I got The Well-Educated Mind from the library after you guys mentioned it and I like what it has to say. I'm willing to put the effort in to try to learn how to read and analyze this stuff. It just may not happen right now while I have so many other things to do. So, perhaps I will use the Well-Trained Mind after all.
How I visualize myself doing homeschooling is having a set schedule in terms of how the day goes. For instance, everyone getting up by a certain time and having family and personal gospel study time. Then moving on to basic chores and preparations for the day. Then having a set amount of time to focus on learning where we work for a set amount of time on math, reading, etc. However, if some subject got someone really excited, I'd be willing to be flexible and let them fully enjoy exploring that instead of having to put it down to focus on another subject. Someone posted a link to a homeschooling curriculum here at Nauvoo which I really liked. The guy was really extreme (he was the one who didn't give his kids sugar) but he had lists of books and info that should be covered every year. It was an affordable curriculum and I planned on using it as a basis and then supplementing it with other materials. I'd like to give my kids choices as to what they pull from the curriculum and flow with their interests. The goal would still be to cover everything eventually. Perhaps this will be too structured and hard to pull off, but that's how I visualize it for now.
My oldest daughter is just barely two and we're expecting our second daughter right around Halloween, so we have a while before we worry about it. After reading some books about it, home schooling really appeals to me. I want to do it but am flexible enough to know it may not happen. Recently I talked to someone who has a sister with 7 kids who home schools. Her decision to home school was different for every child. Some go to public school and some stay home. She made her decision after careful consideration of each child and lots of prayer. So, when it's closer, I'll have to determine what to do with my kids.
Posts: 279 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
And I didn't see your reply until just now! Wow, we actually sound a lot alike--except I'm a reader married to a math/science guy. So the reading in WTM really appealed to me.
I, too, started researching when my daughter was about two, and considering it, and am now, finally, getting to the point where we'll start doing something with all this research.
The WTM does talk more about reading than about science, but as far as I can tell it does recommend some pretty good stuff for science. (The 2nd ed. has a "more challenging" physics curriculum for 4th grade as well as the ordinary, too.) We'll be doing quite a lot of that, since it seems that DangerGirl has inherited her dad's math brain, and he wants to do a lot of science (his big complaint about WTM is that it doesn't so computer programming anywhere near early enough, you have to start at 10 or so). Anyway there's lots of great science stuff out there--we're excited about doing chemistry and stuff!
Posts: 562 | Registered: Feb 2002
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