posted
I didn't quite know how to call this thread and this may be a very bad idea, but I would like to discuss this.
There are a few blog entries or such going around in facebook at least. They're about a gay man marrying a straight girl and having a happy and successful marriage.
I found that it does make me think things. It lingers in my mind and thus I'd like to discuss it.
Personally I fully believe that it is possible to have such a marriage and it can be very good. I can imagine myself in place of these women, because I might be in such a place. I almost married a very good man I love dearly, who is gay - though I did not know about the gay issue at the time. I know had I married him, I'd know it now. He did marry in the temple and divorced some time after, left the church and chose a different way of living. I don't know for sure what choices he would have made if I had married him, but personally for me it would not have been a problem really, if he'd been happy enough with me. I don't consider myself such a great person though, to think that because of me he would have made a different choice.
So I can understand that it can be great and both parties can be happy if they so decide. We all have some things we need to just live with that are not ideal in or with our spouses.
So I think it's great these people are having a very good life and they feel they are doing what the Lord wants them to do. I believe it is possible that they are genuinely happy and satisfied.
But since it is something that is spreading in the internet, though the two I've read specifically say they're not endorsing it or saying it's very easy or saying it's the right way for everyone else, it still gets interpreted as such.
So I'm kind or torn between should I (or do I) feel that I look up at them, because they obviously are great people doing what they feel right even when it is something most peers, both straight and gay I can imagine, frown upon, or should I still be a bit vary and can I feel that it's something I don't feel like spreading around because it may cause more harm than good... And do I feel the way I do because of my experience and the fact that I can put myself in the wives places, or is it about something else. You know, just a funny feeling when you can't say if something is very good or not so good...
I'm not sure why I'd like discussion about it, perhaps I feel that seeing other people discuss about it may help me sort out my thoughts and feelings. I've followed discussion on facebook, but it's very different when many participants have no idea about the gospel and why it plays such a big role in these two marriages.
So how do you feel about it - the marriages themselves, but perhaps more about talking about them so publicly, I feel kind of even advertising them. And why do you think you feel that way?
Posts: 828 | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Huh. A second account of a fully gay, fully practicing Latter-day Saint.
(Mitch Mayne was the first I heard of. Not married, used to live a more 'traditional' homosexual lifestyle, but currently believing member serving as executive seceretary.
Posts: 2128 | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
There is another article that I read recently where the husband was open about being gay before they got married. He helped write a book about his experiences.
There is also a nauvoo member who has not posted in a couple of years.
Talking about it. Personally I feel that we are pressured not to talk about things like this. I feel it from gay people and straight people. They all come down saying that it is wrong to hold the person back or stupid. They don't want to hear when it actually works because then they would be wrong.
I'd love to hear stories about people who stay married all their lives and have a happy marriage despite feeling gay or having a gay spouse so I could share that as an example, but I'm not really sure it is my example to share. besides you have the pearls before swine idea.
So I've mixed feelings on it as well. I think we should be ready to stand and share what is right and not be afraid of being shouted down, but we also have to be perceptive to the Spirit in when is the time and place to share.
Posts: 4963 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I like stories like this, because it helps convey the truths that (1) we as children of God and people are not defined by our feelings, but rather by our actions and (2) we are not slaves to our feelings, but can choose to keep the commandments of God in spite of our feelings.
Posts: 2973 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I like these stories for the same reasons Paddington Bear does. I find it sad that we have moved away from defining SSA as a mental illness that can be dealt with and have instead decided that it's simply a 'lifestyle.'
Here's a for instance: I suffer from major depression. It's a struggle. It's something I've had to struggle with all my life, though it wasn't something I came to terms with until I was in my early 20s. It makes my life difficult, especially when I give into the urges it confronts me with. It makes my marriage more difficult. But with counseling, medication, the gospel, and a good support structure I deal with it and don't let it rule me or decide my actions. The EXACT SAME THINGS can be said for SSA. What would it be like if we suddenly started viewing depression (or any other mental illness) as simply a 'lifestyle?' Suicide, self-destructive behaviors and harmful self-medicating would skyrocket. People would stop being able to get good help for it anymore because 'there's nothing wrong with it.' People would stop fighting it and instead give in to it, leading to massive personal and family decay. We really need to hold up great examples like this man who deal with his struggles productively.
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I also like the way PaddingtonBear expressed it.
I've come across a few blogs over the years by men with SSA who married a woman in the temple and have been living happily the heterosexual lifestyle. They were open and up front with their spouses before the marriage so there were no surprises.
The universal attitude I get from them is that they're going to live the gospel regardless of SSA and they're simply unwilling to compromise on their beliefs. And I applaud them. Heartily.
The attitude I see from others, ie Vocal Joe Public, is that these men are traitors to the homosexual cause.
Personally, I'm glad these people, who are living the gospel despite SSA, are speaking out. We need their voices.
Posts: 4298 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
There was recently an article in LDS living with such a marriage. I am a little lukewarm about it personally. I have seen it end very very badly. That by no means indicates it always will. It has just made me a bit of a skeptic. I would be deeply concerned if one of my children were one of the involved parties.
Posts: 7956 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I've read two accounts recently. What I liked about the Mansfield one was the description of what intimacy and oneness means and how sex is only part of that.
The church now specifically says it does NOT recommend that those with ssa wed straight partners (now that I think about it, I think I've always heard this about men, not about women). And I think that is pretty wise counsel. But for those who succeed, my guess is that it requires fully understanding and accepting the gay and that they will always be so. In years past there was this expectation that the marriage would make them no longer gay, and as the two current stories are describing, that just isn't true.
BTW, it isn't only emotions a ssa person has to deal with. There is research that suggests that hormones play a role in at least 30& of the cases, so there is also a physical element to the issue.
Posts: 2183 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:I like stories like this, because it helps convey the truths that (1) we as children of God and people are not defined by our feelings, but rather by our actions and (2) we are not slaves to our feelings, but can choose to keep the commandments of God in spite of our feelings.
I find that people think we are slaves to emotions in so many ways. So many people say you can't choose who you love when they are talking about heterosexual situations. They use it as an OK reason to get a divorce; "I no longer love him so I shouldn't stay with him." And that's the only reason they are getting the divorce.
Or someone chooses to marry someone who is going to work out badly for them because they are "in love".
The more I watch though the more I see that people choose to be in love. You choose it when you keep dating the guy. You choose it by doing little things for him. You choose to fall out of love, by not going out with your DH anymore, or not putting love notes on the mirror or not milking the cow for him when he is sick. It's our little actions that choose love.
quote:The church now specifically says it does NOT recommend that those with ssa wed straight partners
My understanding was the church doesn't recommend as a remedy for SSA, rather than it just doesn't recommend it. Am I misunderstanding it?
EDG - I would also be concerned. I think any parent would.
edited to correct when I said "people" instead of "emotions".
quote: The more I watch though the more I see that people choose to be in love. You choose it when you keep dating the guy. You choose it by doing little things for him. You choose to fall out of love, by not going out with your DH anymore, or not putting love notes on the mirror or not milking the cow for him when he is sick. It's our little actions that choose love.
Could. Not. Agree. More.
Fell out of love with your spouse? Then love him. Actively. Do loving things, like make him his favourite brownies or treat him with kindness and respect and smile and joke with him and spend time with him and...
Posts: 4298 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Thanks all. I think one of the things I wonder if it makes a difference to marry or stay single for someone struggling with SSA. Perhaps one thing that kind of bothers me that I do kind of get the impression that these men who are able to marry women and have a successful marriage, perhaps feel that it is something to be done in order to reach celestial kingdom and exaltation. Doctrinally yes, but I personally believe that anyone with SSA living a chaste life but not marrying anyone in this life, will have the right for exaltation, if all the other aspects are ok, keeping commandments etc.
I do understand that you can have a full meaningfull life when you do marry, and you obviously miss out on something, but so do all those single women who never get to marry (and men too, who don't marry for example due to mental illness or other handicaps). And every person who don't marry for what ever reason, can also have a full and meaningful life - and a feeling that they are doing everything the Lord asks them and doing what is right.
So perhaps that's one thing that does bother me, the notion of "to fully live the gospel and to do what I must do to reach exaltation, I need to marry a woman even when I have a SSA". I still admire very much that they do what they feel is right. Just wondering if something is right, does it need to be necessary?
Posts: 828 | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
I read the blog post mentioned in the OP before this thread started. I have heard similar stories over the years. As mentioned, we even have had a Nauvoodle who was an example of a gay man married to woman. However, I recall a Nauvoodle who was a bishop who came out of the closet leaving a marriage (though still on good terms) and leaving the church to live as a gay man following his urges. It is a tough situation I have to say I'm glad I don't have to experience.
Posts: 5585 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Most of the gay men I know would find it difficult to classify this man as being gay; they would definitely see him as bisexual. They tell me that they feel the same way about sexual relations with women the way that I would feel about the idea of having sexual relations with a man. There is a deep set, almost physical revulsion at the idea, which doesn't really fit with this man's account. I would consider him a bisexual with a bias towards SSA.
But then again, it's his business, not mine. If he remains faithful to the person to whom he has made marriage commitments, he deserves a higher level of praise from Heavenly Father than I ever will.
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quote: BTW, it isn't only emotions a ssa person has to deal with. There is research that suggests that hormones play a role in at least 30& of the cases, so there is also a physical element to the issue.
I view these as the same thing. I mean, I'd be willing to bet that there is a physical element to most of the emotions we feel. I certainly believe that there is a hormonal role in my still being attracted to women who are not my wife. However, "welp, it's biological" is not a get-out-of-jail-free card, nor would we want it to be. We can still make correct choices.
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posted
I can guarantee that hormones play a role in monthly mood swings, too. That won't stop me from teaching my daughters that PMS is no reason to treat everyone around them like dirt.
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