posted
Our ward has one deacon (my son) and two teachers so we rely heavily on Elders and High Priests to help pass the sacrament. There's a paper diagram that is used to show everyone where to pass and line up. I would like to do a wallet sized card that has the same information. Does anyone have one they have already put together? Yes, some may call me lazy but I call it being efficient. Why go through creating something that someone has already done?
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posted
The order may vary among wards depending on the configuration of the building.
Take the copy that is at the Sacrament table & photocopy it, reducing until it is the size you want. Make sure that final copy is a good one since it will be several generations from the original. Use it as a master to make whatever number you want, then laminate them.
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posted
I was going to print directly off the computer onto glossy cards. I thought someone might have already created something similar in MS Word or similar software that is editable.
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Searching at google it seems like you can find one at this site, but I'm having trouble finding it.
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posted
I ran into that one. I did locate the diagram on that site but it is a half sheet that I cannot edit. Thanks, though!
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posted
Good luck. I don't think our ward has one, but we could really use one. So if you find one, I will probably let our DQ Advisor know about it.
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Can't you just point? I mean, before the meeting, say you pass THERE (pointing) and you pass HERE (pointing)? If you have little diagrams, won't they be pulling them out and referring to them during the ordinance? That would detract from the spirit that should be in the chapel at that time, don't you think?
Just my thoughts. What say ye?
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posted
Until recently, this is what happened in our building:
We pass with 8 deacons who sit, four to a row, in the first two rows in front of the sacrament table.
Each seat has a designated number (1-8).
There were two laminated cards that were left in the hymnal boxes. The front bench has the hymnals underneath the bench. The cards indicated graphically by number on a diagram of the chapel seating where the "deacon" went.
So, if there were any newbies passing that day, they'd just hand them the laminated sheets.
I thought that worked out very well on the occasions when I helped to pass the sacrament.
But now the cards are gone, so I don't know what happened to them.
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What YouAlreadyKnowMe said. Assuming your son, being the lone (active?) deacon, is the quorum president, he should be handling this under the oversight of the bishop.
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.Thanks for all the interesting comments. 1) My son is the lone Deacon and is not yet called as quorum president though that is coming. 2) I'm 2nd Counselor in the YM Presidency - any way I can help sacrament be a smooth process, I'm there. There's no decision to be made. This is just paperwork
I'm quite capable of putting a card together - I was just checking to see if anyone had already done so for their ward. The order and everything is established (8 passing to one middle row and a small row on each side with overflow). This is mostly for those who generously help the Aaronic Priesthood - many who are elderly High Priests who do not remember where to go from week to week.
quote: There were two laminated cards that were left in the hymnal boxes. The front bench has the hymnals underneath the bench. The cards indicated graphically by number on a diagram of the chapel seating where the "deacon" went.
I thought about doing something like this but decided the results would be like what you experienced.
I might have to go with a larger format if a card is too small. I was just wanting something easy to pocket and pull out when necessary.
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quote:I think having a printed diagram would go a long ways to help the ordinance proceed reverently, especially for last minute fill-ins from outside the quorum. As long as it doesn't go overboard. My recommendation would be to get the Bishop's approval for the plan, since he is the president of the Aaronic Priesthood and is responsible for making sure the sacrament ordinance is administered correctly.
No changes are being promoted here. The diagram is of the existing method that has probably been used for years in this ward. There is already an existing full page diagram. I was just looking into producing a smaller version in card format.
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Maybe we can borrow an idea from hospitals and have the routes laid out in the carpet? I'm just kidding, but it might not be such a bad idea after all.
quote: Maybe we can borrow an idea from hospitals and have the routes laid out in the carpet? I'm just kidding, but it might not be such a bad idea after all.
They could be painted in a special ultraviolet dye that requires the deacons to wear men-in-black style sunglasses. Posts: 10845 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
The downside of such printed cards is that many people get really locked into the idea of "I did my route and now I'm done" when they should go help in areas not yet finished in order to make the ordinance proceed. I know it shouldn't bug me, but seeing 6 deacons standing in line to go to the front while 2 are trying to finish 5 more rows in the back (when if they all pitched in it would be done in seconds) just annoys the crap out of me.
I've also seen deacons get so locked into the idea of the "spot" on the bench that when they return to the table between the bread and water that they start playing "musical spots" up there in order to "be in the right place for my route" which I also find ridiculous.
Don't get me started on the ones who serve one person and then expect them to take the tray the whole way across the bench to the 1 other person at the other end -- just serve that person and move on, and the other guy on the other side can do that too!
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quote: Thanks for all the interesting comments. 1) My son is the lone Deacon and is not yet called as quorum president though that is coming. 2) I'm 2nd Counselor in the YM Presidency - any way I can help sacrament be a smooth process, I'm there. There's no decision to be made. This is just paperwork.
1) Congratulations in advance to your son! As I repeatedly remind parents of Young Men in my ward, considering how truly filthy the world has become, a boy who is worthy to hold the priesthood--and to hold priesthood keys--is to be celebrated. Hopefully your son will not remain the lone deacon for long. When Bro Burgess from the YM General Presidency came here, he promised us that, if we would organise our quorums according to divine pattern even if there was only one active boy in each, they would inevitably grow. He was right. Three-and-a-half years ago, we had a lone deacon. That same boy now serves as Bishop's first assistant in a priests quorum with six active members. He's responsible for much of that growth. And his old deacons quorum will be up to six members by the end of this month.
2) In my opinion, it is important to remember that oversight for the sacrament rests entirely with the Aaronic Priesthood, not with any member of the YM presidency. You and I actually serve in an auxilliary (similar to primary and Relief Society) which acts to support younger priesthood holders. If I were you, I would wait til my son had been called, sustained, and set apart, and then I would ask him how he would like to handle this situation. You may be on the right track with your pocket card idea, but the one who holds the keys to preside and receive revelation is more likely to know if that is the case or not.
Magson, you should tactfully raise these concerns with your bishop. If he agrees that they are problems, he can discuss them with the deacons quorum presidency and ask them to propose solutions.
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quote:If I were you, I would wait til my son had been called, sustained, and set apart, and then I would ask him how he would like to handle this situation. You may be on the right track with your pocket card idea, but the one who holds the keys to preside and receive revelation is more likely to know if that is the case or not.
What the? I'm really surprised by a few of the comments I have gotten regarding this. The question was regarding reproducing an already existing chart for an already existing passing method in a smaller format. No revelation is needed, no bishopric approval necessary, no hard thought out contemplation required.
Maybe that is one of the problems in the Church these days. We overcomplicate simple matters. While the sacrament passing itself should not be too formal, the process of reproducing a diagram to help do it should be? This is probably why there are so many meetings that last too long.
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quote: Maybe that is one of the problems in the Church these days. We overcomplicate simple matters. While the sacrament passing itself should not be too formal, the process of reproducing a diagram to help do it should be? This is probably why there are so many meetings that last too long.
Your call, mate. I've never considered respecting priesthood authority complicated, let alone overly complicated. If the elders quroum in your ward was between presidents, would you feel OK about reproducing the already-existing home teaching list in a more handy format, or would you wait til the new president was called and then pitch the idea to him?
In situations such as this, I've found the guidance given by Elders Uchtdorf and Ballard here to be instructive:
quote: Elder Ballard notes that it’s not uncommon for adult leaders to assume responsibility that actually belongs to the youth. “Leadership among youth grows when the leaders counsel carefully with their organization,” he says. “For example, let’s say a deacons quorum has five boys who are active and three who are not. Whose responsibility is it to recover the three who are not active? Far too many leaders would say it’s theirs.”
Instead, a leader should bring the matter into a council setting with the members of the quorum presidency and ask, “What are we going to do, how are we going to do it, and who’s going to do what?” Elder Ballard says.
“If youth see a bishop or another leader who runs everything, who doesn’t involve others, and who doesn’t bring into council all the resources that he has, the youngsters are going to think that’s what a leader does."
quote: Leaders may be inclined to conduct, provide the music, or pray at a youth fireside or other meeting, but they should be “shadow leaders,” overseeing the youth who perform these functions, President Uchtdorf says.
“This can be a challenge for parents and leaders because they know that they can probably do it faster or better. It takes patience to let the youth do it."
quote:If the elders quroum in your ward was between presidents, would you feel OK about reproducing the already-existing home teaching list in a more handy format, or would you wait til the new president was called and then pitch the idea to him?
That scenario doesn't quite fit. The only time I can imagine an Elders quorum being with a president is if something unexpected happened. I can't imagine any Elders quorum being between presidents without leadership. Whatever leadership is in place would have the authority to reproduce a home teaching list in a handy format. As a regular member of the quorum I would not have access to the list to reproduce it in the first place. I do not equate a home teaching list to a diagram to help non-Aaronic priesthood holders pass the sacrament.
quote: That scenario doesn't quite fit. The only time I can imagine an Elders quorum being with a president is if something unexpected happened. I can't imagine any Elders quorum being between presidents without leadership.
Earlier this year, the stake president released our EQ president but didn't replace him for nearly two months. It was a nightmare, as you can imagine. Quorums do not function very well without any leadership.
quote: As a reguler member of the quorum I would not have access to the list to reproduce it in the first place.
True, but you are not even a 'regular member' of the deacons quorum, despite having access to things.
quote: I do not equate a home teaching list to a diagram to help non-Aaronic priesthood holders pass the sacrament.
Fair enough. You may well be right. What, then, do you think would be an accurate parallel in the DQ?
posted
It has not been established that TheOne is acting without instruction from his son (the lone deacon's quorum member). And any assumption to the otherwise is most uncharitable.
Also, it's not within our realm of responsibility to determine if TheOne is acting with or without instruction from his son.
quote:What, then, do you think would be an accurate parallel in the DQ?
Hmmm, Dairy Queen? There's one right around the corner, but I haven't been there in years. I suppose a parallel would be the employees cutting the price of ice cream without authorization from the manager.
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Speaking of Dairy Queen, did you know they've united with Orange Julius? A most uncommonly good drink. In fact, I might just drive the 30 minutes to go to the nearest one this weekend (I just learned they combined forces earlier this week).
(Roper, it's the Dairy Queen located in or near either the Ridgmar Mall or the Hulen Mall)
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quote:I suppose a parallel would be the employees cutting the price of ice cream without authorization from the manager.
Oh, for heaven's sake.
Um, not even close (although you were joking). He's not changing anything, just giving out information, which has already been approved via the priesthood, in a more convenient format.
Why are we so very resistant to personal initiative all of a sudden?
I mean both the Primary AND the Sunday School began because of the "trickle up" efforts of regular members who saw a need and tried to think of ways to fill those needs.
Before the perpetual education fund began, there was at least one group of members of the church attempting to do such a thing privately, as a group of philanthropic church members. The idea trickled right on up to the top.
And those were big things.
This is just him laminating a few little cards, people.
Has "oh, that's not my priesthood authority" become the latest excuse for sitting around watching football on TV all day Sunday? It used to be "I want to spend more time with my family, who isn't watching this game, but hey at least we're in the same house."
posted
Yeah, TheOne, I just figured you'd take your little diagram down to Kinko's or OfficeMax and have them reduce it. If it's already drawn up, why recreate it?
I do strongly agree with all the comments about the youth leading their own program. It worked best for me when I was in young women's the times the presidency made the classes plan and carry out their own activities. I cared more when I knew what we were doing and I knew I had an assignment. But I'm not sure that issue is really related to this - although suggesting it to your son is a good idea.
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The original laminations in our ward stuck around for about five years, so I think losing them won't be a huge issue. They even had "please do not remove from this bench" (or something like that) printed at the top, which pleading functioned for about five years.
He could do 8 by 10's for the bench, and (wait for it) little cards as well!!!! If he has the moohlaah for that.
Wouldn't it be fun to have a lamination store called "Jeremiah's Laminations?" Of course, you'd have to sell way more than laminations to make a go of it financially. It could be one of those, oh-so-very-very-rare scrapbooking supply stores.
quote: The original laminations in our ward stuck around for about five years, so I think losing them won't be a huge issue. They even had "please do not remove from this bench" (or something like that) printed at the top, which pleading functioned for about five years.
quote:Um, not even close (although you were joking). He's not changing anything, just giving out information, which has already been approved via the priesthood, in a more convenient format.
You're right. In my rush to say something smart-alecky and slightly clever, I didn't think it through. The parallel would be the employees telling their friends they worked at Dairy Queen without getting authorization to do advertising.
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posted
I created a nice color coded diagram for passing the sacrament in our ward. If you would like a PDF copy emailed to you, send me a message from this board. It can be printed and laminated so that any worthy priesthood holder can take a quick look at it and help participate in this sacred ordinance.
[ January 03, 2011, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: David Shong ]
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I ran into that one. I did locate the diagram on that site but it is a half sheet that I cannot edit. Thanks, though!
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dilbert!
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